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Saving big sharks?

averageguy Mar 5, 2009

  1. SugarSkull

    SugarSkull Ring Of Bone

    Just live your life as you see fit.

    It will work out.
  2. sickboy

    sickboy Marsupial Brigade Member

    One way or another.


  3. Towelie

    Towelie The JD: Don't Forget To Bring A Towel Brigade Member

    Not to knitpick(sp?) RF, but mahi mahi is not dolphin. it's part of the sail fish family and also referred to as dorado, more commonly in spanish speaking countries.
  4. SoToo

    SoToo paranoid self-destroyer

    Well... at least this post sounds a bit more realistic. As opposed to the, "Think you're Green? You don't know shit!" post.

    So you want to go for more afternoon drives, but the gas prices are too damn high, and our little electric GreenMobiles need to find a charging station well before we can even get into a decent afternoon drive? If you wanted to go for more afternoon drives now, then we should have limited all those long afternnoon drives, in our V8 powered lead sleds, way back then.

    You want to let your children venture out further? Good luck pulling them away from the PlayStation long enough to walk around the block.

    You honestly want to look back at environmental conservation of the 60s? Turn off the water when you brush your teeth, and don't make too much noise while you play and clean your room?

    If I'm not mistaken... my water runs down a drain and back into the fucking lake, unlike my electricity which burns brightly at the filament of a 200W bulb so I can sleep with a nightlight on. My city burns more electricity in one night, on one block of a quite parkway, than I burn in a week anyway.

    The sound of an ultra large Wendy's fountain drink cup makes a lot more noise when it hits the road than I ever did when I yelled, "Come out, come out, wherever you are!"

    Yeah... I grew up in the days of Woodsy the Owl and Iron Eyes Cody too. One was a cartoon and the other was an actor of Italian descent, and our whole lives have pretty much been a lie. Instead of concentrating environmental efforts where they were really needed, it became more of a chance for our elders to get kids to be quiet and stop running up the water bill, and all through the power of PBS, and Saturday morning cartoons.

    You think poor behavior and violence is a new thing? You never met me back then. Then again, since you like quoting time periods, do you honestly think we are more violent now than we were a century ago? We also like to focus on the good ol' USofA alone... however, you brought up the dilema of some 3rd world countries.... so, do you honestly think we are more violent right now than they were in Rwanda about 15 years ago? You want less people in the world... then the Hutu did you a large favor.


    Listen man... I don't kill for fun, I normally catch and release, I don't litter if I can possibly help it, every bulb in my home is the low wattage fluorescent type, I save my aluminum cans and give them to the poor, etc., etc.... I don't consider myself an environmentalist, nor do I consider myself an activist, and "green" is not a proper label for me. However, I am concerned about what will be left for my children, and my children's children.

    Which brings me to the meat of your posting.... I did my part, I had my TWO kids, that was enough for me and my wife. However, if my children decide to have more than two kids, whether by choice, or by accident... I don't want some asshole telling me how many grandchildren I'm allowed to have! If they have one, then become pregnant with twins, what then? Abortion? Are you in a China frame of mind here or what?

    Not only that... but we already have the government's hand in every pocket they can find... now you want them reaching into the womb as well?

    You want to find a better way for welfare families to stop increasing their monthly food stamp intake, or OctoMoms to stay off the airwaves... fine, whatever blows your skirt up. However, I'm not sure anyone here fits your criteria for weeding out the human population.

    I don't kill sharks, nobody here raised their keyboard, and I still believe you are on your soapbox in the wrong forum.
  5. TacoMan5000

    TacoMan5000 TacoDevilMan

    I better get the rubber boots out; the bullshit is getting pretty high in this whole thread.
  6. averageguy

    averageguy Little member

    "I still believe you are on your soapbox in the wrong forum."

    " You think poor behavior and violence is a new thing? You never met me back then. Then again, since you like quoting time periods, do you honestly think we are more violent now than we were a century ago? We also like to focus on the good ol' USofA alone... however, you brought up the dilema of some 3rd world countries.... so, do you honestly think we are more violent right now than they were in Rwanda about 15 years ago? You want less people in the world... then the Hutu did you a large favor.


    I'm on a soapbox to make the point that, for the most part those that would call themselves "Green" are actually lazy thinkers, self centered. misguided. "Green" and "PC" are pretty much interchangeable for me.

    I consider the last 40 years and forward as that period where we have become more violent - Rwanda (ongoing hostilities into present) is an example of this violence. Violence that exceeds what was met out by the Vikings, Barbarians probably even the SS. Easy to ignore in a world with almost 7 billion people.

    But to answer this question more fully; it is a common misconception that this level of violence always existed - it definitely did not.

    I've researched court records going back 500 years - it just isn't there. The violence today is horrific even unimaginable by comparison.

    From recent headlines consider the Jena 6. Barker was hit to the side of the head, a blow he never saw or had reason to expect. It was hard enough to knock him unconscious. That, was when the beating began. Part of that beating was being stomped and kicked in the head by six teens while he was unconscious. Then he had his head slammed repeatedly into a concrete beam until blood ran from his ears and nose.

    Defendents all admit Barker never uttered or acted in any way as to provoke the attack.

    This wasn't a war zone, they weren't barbarians (well they sort of are) - they weren't led by adults, they weren't uneducated - they were school kids, high school kids - in school. Doesn't sound like my high school or my parents or even great great parents high school.
    All involved walked with a slap on the wrist because there is so much violence around us that we have difficulty discerning it.

    A year ago in Palm Beach county, six teens home invaded where they took turns abusing and beating a woman. They forced the womans preteen son to watch and then made him sodomize her. Afterwards they were both forced into a tub and viciously scrubbed with cleaning chemicals and bleach, the perpetrators thinking this would erase dna.

    A mugging 50 years ago meant some bruising and a lighter wallet. Today it could well mean you are permanently maimed or dead.

    Infants being checked into hospitals with 26 broken bones or simply fried in the microwave.

    While the horrors of war, pillage and conquest and evil regimes are common throughout history, it was very rare to see this kind of violence outside these situations. And never (almost) from children.

    100 years ago the hatchet job by Lizzie Borden was so out of the ordinary that it lives on in verse and song today.

    When Manson home invaded in '69 it rocked the planet.

    Today when home invasions are all too common and even more violent - at best, they may make local news. I say may because most violent incidents pass without the public being aware - an evil conspiracy by liberals to hide the failed policy of catch and release.

    I spent some time on Key Biscayne as a kid and the only one that had a "compound" was Nixon. Today in Miami and communities across the USA, walled compound type houses are common place as people try to keep the violence away from their door. It sucks. With 13 billion people (and this ain't no theory like global warming) it's going to suck a lot worse.

    Is this the right forum - it's a forum and this is an issue that will be all encompassing at some point. I want us to be aware and do the right thing before we have to impose harsh solutions.

    That's the problem with overpopulation, it creeps up on us slowly and as we become aware of it we have to continually make adjustments that minimize our lifestyle.
    I could spend a considerable amount of time detailing how this is happening, but once you are aware - you can identify these for yourself. It impacts on us all the time, in every way - everyday.

    I appreciate that you make an effort to be aware of the environment, but at your age you must be able to see the change that has taken place around you. For me - it is exceedingly clear what we have done and I'm mad and sad for my son. Our grandchildren will inherit an even less atractive world and it will have little to do with global warming or polar bears or sharks. It wont be the open plains of 200 years ago or even the open highways of 30 years ago but rather the oppressive burden of billions and all the adjustments and constraints that result.

    We can make a difference, it would cost very little and produce measurable results. We simply need to make people aware of the very real problems and constraints of an ever increasing population - as aware as they are of the imagined one of global warming.
  7. SSandshark1050

    SSandshark1050 Devil @ heart

    Only sharks I like is sandsharks......:cheesydevil:
  8. SoToo

    SoToo paranoid self-destroyer

    You don't consider the Nazi Holocaust an act of violence? What about the genocide in Bosnia, as well as other areas of Eastern Europe? Trail of Tears maybe?

    You don't need court cases to show you the violence of the human race beyond the past 40 years. A good history book or two will do the trick.

    As technology advances, so do the methods of violence.... that is a given. Lizzy Borden reportedly murdered her parents with an axe... today she might have run them down in the family Hyundai. There are more people in the world today... therefore, claiming more violence, makes as much sense as saying, "I ate twice as much at the Tex-Mex buffet today... so I'll probably shit twice as much later...." this is another given.

    Some would agree that parents were more strict in the past, and much of today's youth are quite fucked up due to the lax nature of their parents. Strict isn't always better (see Lizzy Borden above), but it worked more often than not. However, many of the carefree, funloving parents of today, which hated the strict ways of their own parents, cannot quite put 2 and 2 together and understand why the youth is out of control. But, I'd be willing to bet that parents 40 years ago said the same thing about the greasy haired, swithblade toting, gangs of their day, that you are saying about today's youth.

    As a matter of fact... have you ever know a generation that has not shaken their heads and asked, "What in the hell is happening to the world today?"

    First we cry out for govt intervention on child abuse, which results in even the slightest of harsh words to a child coming under scrutiny by authorities. So now that the kids have gone apeshit, we cry out for govt intervention to control the birth rate of kids?

    Oh yeah... let's not forget to include the media reports. Information today spreads at the speed of light, and to far more sources than your average telegraph wire or pony express. However, we still allot the news media their same hour coverage.

    You wonder why Lizzy made the papers all over the country, as opposed to being just a local report? I don't know...maybe because it's still a mystery, or maybe because they just didn't include the multitude of violent acts against black and poor people in that same time period. Oh no... you didn't forget about that did you? Probably won't find much in your court cases either.

    In all fairness though... if I turn on the dedicated 24 hour news channels, I will undoubtedly see a puppy or kitten being pulled from a sewage pipe in another country, as opposed to a crackhead being slaughtered at the local 7-11. Maybe this is a good thing... I'm not sure.

    Anyway... there are a multitude of changes that are needed to fix the system.... one idea is not going to cut it. Yes... if we thin the herd by half, then the violence, waste, homeless, hunger, and whatever other problems we face today will be cut in half as well.... and that is just another given. However, at what cost? When your children have children, are you willing to accept the consequences of your idea? Are you willing to accept the destruction of one of your grandchildren because, for whatever reason, your children went beyond the limit?

    How many children did your parents have, and where do you fall in line? Under your guidelines... I would not have been born, nor my wife, nor my parents, nor my wife's parents. Get the picture? Maybe this would have been OK with you, but I'd hate to look at my wife or children and think, "Damn... I wish we'd never been born."

    Now then... we have many on welfare (another govt idea) that have children for the sake of earning extra food stamps. If they don't care anymore for their kids than that, then sure their kids will more than likely run wild and fuck up those around them. You could be asking for a stop to this madness... but you decided to wish for something different.

    You made the reference of Apple Pies becoming Tacos.... I like tacos, but I see where you're going with that. So instead of asking for your govt to be more strict on the immigration laws... you've decided to not only let them have their free hand at allowing more illegal immigrants, but to give them the rights of an American citizen as well... and you've also decided that you won't take a stand until measures are taken on decreasing the population?

    Good Luck.

    You talk a good game, but by your own admission, you will not give a shit until something is done about the population explosion.

    What you are asking for is impossible. Hopefully our country would never go for such a thing, I'm willing to bet that many other countries would not join your cause either, and even if the govts of the world liked your idea, I'm pretty certain you would have a real problem trying to convince the entire Roman Catholic Church, which does not condone the use of any form of birth control.

    We could discuss this for quite a long period of time, and still wind up without a good answer. We already ask that steps be taken to help prevent teenage pregnancies and such, but I'm afraid that the solution does not begin with a limit on the babies, it begins with better education on many, many, many levels.

    It continues by providing daycare in the housing communities, and making abusers of the welfare system work for their keep. After all, aren't they already on the fucking payroll?

    Maybe it continues further to include Mexico as the 51st state, so that the Southern border becomes quite a bit smaller. We already have their population, might as well make use of their country's resources while we're at it.

    Maybe it ends by taking control of our lawmakers, before they take more control of us. These fast action patchwork plans, with detrimental future consequences, need to become a thing of the past. Do you honestly think this House Energy Bill is something to help the environment? I believe it's more smoke and mirrors.
  9. averageguy

    averageguy Little member

    SoToo - I appreciate that you have stepped up to this discussion.

    I referenced the SS in my previous post as a catch-all for europe in the 20th century.

    It's interesting that crime statistics reveal a downward trend for well over a decade. But these statistics don't reveal that when violent crimes are commited they are more brutally violent than ever.

    I am generally not referring to more widespread violence as in the ethnic warfare ongoing in Africa, but this type of violence too is more brutal now than it has been in the past. In Rwanda there were accounts of Hutu slaughtering a family in front of a young daughter, they would then brutalize the daughter, then force the daughter to direct them to the homes and hiding places of relatives, then the daughter was used to coax members out of hiding and often forced to execute the relative. I mentioned previously how this violence is still ongoing.

    Not even during the Inquisition (the absolute single most barbaric event I can think of offhand) when individuals were tortured and then burned alive were these level of techniques used.

    But these are larger scale atrocities. It is the violence on a more individual or civilian level that is really disturbing and the fact that it is not a continent away but next door. Any true crime blog will attest to this.

    It's not a question of tools for the job - incidents like the home invasion by teens in Palm Beach referenced above are nowhere to be found in the historical record - I can reference many similar modern incidents however.

    The impact of population on our behaviour and environment is clear to me. I don't believe that we can effectively deal with these until we stabilize the population. I am simply advocating a proper awareness. The quality of our life is declining in a myriad of ways. The lack of awareness and action now will surely lead to more stringent remedial actions later.

    Global warming got a big boost from corporations when they figured there might be some money to be made from this.

    But there is no money in stabilizing the population. Corporations need an expanding consumer base so this idea holds no interest for big business. Governments, not the least our own, need an ever expanding tax base to support the many retirees this population explosion has created. Then there are individuals like yourself that believe there is a right to bear any number of children.

    It all starts with just creating some focus. I am confident this is an issue that you will give more thought to going forward as will others who have read these posts.

    There are reasons why smaller class sizes are desirable and more intimate settings are friendlier.

    Car makers profile their automobiles on deserted landscapes. The SUV gained ascendence with it's promise of escape to some imagined wilderness (in reality this wilderness is privately owned or federally protected and generally not available for four wheel escapist fun).

    In advertisements Hoteliers promote their deserted beaches. A vacation in the islands is that away time we desperately crave (in reality these islands are a mess compared to the Carribean I visited with my father in the seventies).

    Innately we want a world with less people and less chaos. Innately we understand this world would be nicer to live in.
  10. Buffalohump

    Buffalohump Off the reservation

    You want less people? That day is coming whether we like it or not. Simple mathematical equation. Too many people + not enough resources = lots of dead people. Whether through war or famine its gonna happen and soon.

    Unless the swine flu gets 'em first!

    Either way, I'm all for it.

    Sharks are cool, people less so.
  11. falcon125

    falcon125 the express train to mayhem Brigade Member

  12. RoyalM

    RoyalM Commando Devil Super Moderator Brigade Member

    This population boom is why I make no effort to give to the 3rd World. Damn breeders. China had the right idea but hell India and Africa are just taking the piss.

    Anyway this thread makes me think of this for some reason:
  13. SoToo

    SoToo paranoid self-destroyer

    Of course I'm going to step up... I'm only human.

    Damn it though... this is getting boring. Why do you continually try to stack the deck in your favor? Everytime I give you an example of violence beyond the past 40 years (a time period set by yourself), you dismiss it. By all means...

    Let's not include Africa or "ethnic warfare".

    Let's not include the Nazi Holocaust.

    Let's not include the racial violence in the states.

    Let's not include war.

    Let's not include barbaric conquests.

    Let's not include evil regimes.

    Oh yeah, and while we're at it... let's go ahead and blame the Nazis for all of the problems of Europe in the 20th century?

    WTF? Which shell was it you were wanting me to look under again? I'm fairly certain that this is not the way this game is supposed to be played. In fact... I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to get a choice.

    OK then... teenagers. You think there weren't teens involved in much of the above examples? What about the Hitler Youth? Oh damn... I must've forgotten that we not only excluded the Nazis, but we also want the teens to be closer to home. So you don't think teens ever raped, beat, mutilated, or murdered a black person out of racial hatered? Give me a break.

    Out of what has been mentioned thus far... the Spanish Inquisition, the Vikings, the multiple counts of geocide, etc.... do you honestly believe that every violent act was documented? Thanks to advancements in technology, not only can we see the atrocities play out before us, but they become increasingly harder to conceal between the lines of history. Yep.. cover ups... they're not as modern as you may think.

    Look at all the court cases you want, but do you have any idea of how many unsolved cases of brutal attacks there are in history? Thanks again to technology... many more cases can be solved today, giving us a face to the crime.

    Strangely enough... you had brought up the songs about Lizzy Borden, but you failed to mention the multitude of serial killers in history, with the exception of the Manson family. Kids didn't have much better things to do in Lizzy's day, but skip rope and sing songs. Sadistic little fuckers too... you'd flip if you heard your kids playing in the front lawn, and singing cute little songs about Ted Bundy. We won't even get started on 'Ring Around the Rosie', or Jack and the Beanstalk. These days, however, we can watch the stories of Ed Gein, Jeffrey Dahmer, or John Wayne Gacy unfold on the silver screen.

    Whatever.... violence, violence, violence, and more violence. It's historic, you know? From the day the Cain whacked Abel out of jealosy, we've had to contend with it. Slice it, dice it, and present it however you want... but you are in extreme denial if you continue to present the lame idea that it wasn't there.

    Now then... back to the other lame idea of putting a cap on birth output to solve these problems.


    Stiffer penalties for violence would better solve these problems.

    If the slaps on the wrist continue... then how in the world is a lower population going to help. In all probability, a higher population did not cause the attacks you've mentioned... they were more than likely caused by an absence of proper guidance, and an absence of fear due to an absence of proper punishment.

    I'm not much for the politically correct game either... a century ago you were hung at the end of a rope if you stole a man's horse. What the fuck has happened to the way we deal with crime? Now taxpayers get to pay the rest of their life, in order to make life comfortable for the rest of a hardened criminal's life, instead of just expelling the sorry son of a bitch from this side of the dirt.

    You've got to get people on the same page with this shit too. Take away our guns, and you take away our ability to properly defend ourselves. We should actually be taking notes from the lawmakers in Kennesaw, GA on this matter, as it's all too apparent that we're not considering the flip side of the historic coin.

    I'm not sure if it's the violent criminals we have to be worried about either... we may need to concentrate our concerns on the fucks that feel sorry for them.

    For crying out loud... if I go to DcMonald's, it's clearly written on the menu, "Double Cheeseburger --- $1.00..." Shouldn't there also be a menu somewhere clearly stating that the penalty for murder is death?

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again... if we want to solve a large majority of these issues (yours and mine both), then we need to put a cap on the power of the federal govt, a right guaranteed to us in the Tenth Amendment. In doing so, maybe we can alleviate much of the socialistic programs as well.

    Stopping abuse of the welfare system and implementing tougher immigration laws would not only be a more realistic goal to achieve, it would go a long way towards cutting down the population of America. Something you and I both could live more comfortably with.

    The sharks will just have to wait... there are bigger fish to fry here.
    Manganr likes this.

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