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Open carry demonstrations on youtube. Your thoughts?

purpledc Jan 6, 2015

  1. purpledc

    purpledc purple or blue, depends on the strength of your gr Brigade Member

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    Hello guys. First let me say I dont own a gun. I fully support the right to bear arms and i would even venture to say that i believe every able bodied person who legally can own a gun should. Why havent I? long story. Regardless a certain topic interests me and I am trying to understand it and I would appreciate insight from those who have a better understanding than I do.

    That topic is open carry demonstrations that I see on youtube. For those of you who dont know what Im talking about the videos I have seen go something like this. A guy or group of guys who live in a jurisdiction that allows open carry or dont under certain circumstances publicly exorcise their right to bear arms in public. Many times the police do engage them and since they have studied the laws or have been advised on them they do thing such as refusal to show identification, refusal to produce their permits and such.

    My question is how do you guys feel about these demonstrations. For me, Its kinda a catch 22. I understand the reason in which they do it but I cant help but feel that at least some of these guys are purposely being difficult and escalating the tension as high as possible. I understand the right to not have to show your identification. But still I think that by exorcising that right you are being difficult for the sake of being difficult. Is there a point where these demonstrations go too far?

    I know these guys argue that they arent doing anything illegal so they shouldnt be stopped period or asked to provide identification and that its a demonstration to show if the police for knows, understands and follows the letter of the law that they swore to enforce. But a part of me cant help but feel these demonstrations might actually hurt the public persona of Guns and may be doing more harm than good. Because though I know why they are doing it, many sheeple will look at it as a public flexing of muscles. And many times these people choose a weapon because of its intimidating look. They are on the streets carrying AR's not an old Winchester.

    Please understand I am not against these demonstrations. I am simply trying to understand them not being a gun owner. Do you think these demonstrations are appropriate? Do you feel they are simply people who are being difficult for the simple sake of being so? Do you think these demonstrations help or hurt public opinion of firearms?

    My last question and probably my most important one that will help me understand. If we are not allowed to ask to see identification or that the gun owner show his permit what CAN be done to ensure that these demonstrators arent in fact the same people that would open fire in public and hurt/kill people. I understand why they do it, but right now even if i had a gun and could open carry I would want others to know my intentions were pure and that they have nothing to fear from me. Your thoughts?
     
  2. Rio

    Rio Como un angel JDBA Official Member Knife Maker or Craftsman Brigade Member

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    To me is simple, I love the spirit of it, let the system know of our rights, demonstrate all you want but please don't get all butt hurt when a cop approaches you , they probably got a call from some house wife that has no idea and all she reads is the news about the shootings and got scared and called 911, the cops only have that information to go on, probably they don't know that is a guy with his agenda to show them that there is nothing wrong with open carry which is his right, but both sides need to understand this, all cops I know they are for the right to carry and own guns but is not an easy job to quickly see if the open carry guy is a nice guy or a nut job ready to shoot people, so both sides should be patience... yes is your right to carry but is the cops job to make sure you are legit do to the realistic circumstances of today's shootings etc... one can argue the "legality of it all" at the end if I'm a cop making sure a situation is safe takes priority, once I see the guy knows the law and is not a wacko well them have a nice day , nice gun you got there ...:)
     
  3. purpledc

    purpledc purple or blue, depends on the strength of your gr Brigade Member

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    That was my concern over watching these videos. Because when I saw some of them the police officer would ask if they could see either their ID or their carry permit for which most of the videos the people would say no. Then the Cop would ask why and the common response was, because I dont want to because I dont have to. Now again I still understand that it is their right to say that but we have all sorts of rights. And its not always proper to invoke those rights in certain situations. My point being I cant see any logical reason a person would want to take this stance besides trying to provoke an incident. Sure you dont have to show your ID. But the police officer wasnt demanding he was asking.

    So if you have nothing to hide and you are operating within the letter of the law then why NOT show it to them and put the rest of the publics mind at ease as to your intentions? We have rights. We have the right to evoke those rights. But take my middle finger for instance. I have the right to put it up to any person I wish but that doesnt always mean its the proper or wisest choice. I think the best way to preserve our rights is to have common sense on when and where its best to put them to use. And I see some of these videos much like I see a child testing the limits of their parents patience to see just how much they can get away with before someone snaps. I see it as immature if nothing else.

    The demonstration? yes. The open carry to exorcise your rights? All for it. But giving the cops a hard time just because you can? Not sure I would go that far. Its a waste of the taxpayers time, money and I dont feel it does anything to improve the public image of Gun ownership. So for me its never forfeit your rights, but have some fucking common sense and respect for the officers protecting your rights on a daily basis.
     
  4. TacoMan5000

    TacoMan5000 TacoDevilMan

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    I appreciate the sentiment, but a lot of them are dicks about it. 99 times out of 100, the cop is just doing his job. He is not there to hassle you, or to infringe upon your civil rights, or the waste his own time. He is there to investigate an unusual situation, possibly after being notified by a concerned citizen. Many of the people in the videos are intentionally difficult, trying to get a rise out of the officer. That is not the way to get people to take you, or your political stance/statement, seriously. By and large, I think that they set the pro-gun movement back more than they move it forward. This, though, is one of my favorite stops:

    [video=youtube;vyS7Qr58wkU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyS7Qr58wkU[/video]
     
    begreen61 likes this.
  5. waterdogs

    waterdogs Brigade Member Brigade Member

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    Unfortunately, there are a lot of idiots out there. Even though they may be operating within the limits of the law, many of them are using poor judgement (IMHO). Walking around with a pistol on your hip is one thing (it`s likely to go unnoticed by many), but walking down the street with an AR slung over your shoulder is a different ball game....THAT`S bound to ruffle somebody`s feathers, and is just about guaranteed to generate a 911 call, which the police have a legal responsibility to respond to.

    The potential for trouble is pretty high here. Taking one step forward, and two steps back does nor represent progress....

    (And by the way, the term you want to use here is"Exercise" your rights...."Exorcise" means "To cast off demons")
     
  6. purpledc

    purpledc purple or blue, depends on the strength of your gr Brigade Member

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    I knew that word didnt look right but every other way I tried to spell it set off my spell check. Grammar and punctuation is probably my biggest shortcoming. 1 part not giving a shit 2 parts stupidity lol. Still I understand it probably annoys people. Just like it annoys me when people ask about knifes instead of knives.
     
  7. mag1

    mag1 No More Mr. Nice Guy Brigade Member

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    If I was allowed to carry here, I would not mind to show any ID they ask for.
     
  8. Sheldon_Wickersham

    Sheldon_Wickersham Blue Star Knives Knife Maker or Craftsman

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    I would comment, but don't want winter to have another sad... :devilcorn:
     
    perado and Charlie Mike like this.
  9. IWantThatKnife

    IWantThatKnife I want that knife Knife Maker or Craftsman

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    if i were to open carry

    It would be discrete. I have the privilege of national concealed carry and I exercise that right.

    I have a moral responsibility to cooperate with LE; as well as a responsibility to report misconduct by LEOs as well. If a cop stops me I don't know why but I will give him the benifit that he is doing their job.

    Flaunting open carry - carrying a long gun and making a LEOs job more difficult is wrong IMHO; yes there are and I've worked with some badge heavy assholes at the border. I've met some real class asses at the border too - it'd amazing just how much more pissed they get when you just smile and don't raise your voice!
     
    perado likes this.
  10. jjhamilton

    jjhamilton JDBA4L JDBA Official Member

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    Exercise your rights, but exercise them right.......

    Every time I hear about or see demonstrations like this I get really worried whom will be representing my rights...
     
    perado likes this.
  11. Mike Grasso

    Mike Grasso "to protect and to serve" Super Moderator Brigade Member

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    Personally I think they go around pushing the envelope and it hurts the cause of Gun Ownership way more than help.
    Again it's my opinion but that's based on a lot of discussions with Chief's and Sheriffs at numerous IACP meetings.
    Actual politicians are worse.

    So it's a fine line between exercising a right and dicking it up for everyone. Especially when you decide to carry an AR around into Starbucks for a Caramel Macchiato...

    Mike
     
    perado and firebolt like this.
  12. Sheldon_Wickersham

    Sheldon_Wickersham Blue Star Knives Knife Maker or Craftsman

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    Kudos for the three posts above... :thumbsup:
     
  13. knifezoid

    knifezoid Bladerunners Systems -=BRS=- Knife Maker or Craftsman

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    It depends. If it's a peaceful, organized, and civil event I would
    agree to it.

    But just walking into a Starbucks with AR15s strapped to your
    back I do not believe leaves a good impression.

    Yes, it is your right to do so (in some states). But if the point of
    demonstrating is to convey a positive message I don't really
    understand the point of getting a lot of naive people nervous.

    Some people are on the fence about the 2A. They can be pushed
    either way. When you don't portray gun ownership in the right
    light they go on the other side of that fence and it's hard to get
    them to consider coming back.

    I think demonstrating the right to carry should be approached just
    like exercising the 2nd Amendment. Responsibly.
     
    Mike Grasso likes this.
  14. BenDibble

    BenDibble Resident Mortician JDBA Official Member Brigade Member

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    I find it a very touchy subject, and as Mike stated, a lot of these "activists" do more harm by bringing a black cloud over the entire gun rights issue.

    Here in MN we have the benefit of a "carry permit". This is very distinct from a "concealed handgun permit" in the sense that we have no requirement for concealment. We can carry open or concealed without worry of breaking any regulations. I have heard horror stories of states not even allowing a firearm to print through a shirt. scary.

    All this being said, I have always felt the safest and easiest method of carry is concealed. I wear a suit at work, and carry using a outside the waistband holster. concealed, but still easily accessible.

    I have tried open carrying a few times and all it does is draw unwanted attention upon myself. The last thing i want is to become a target of unwarranted attention, either from the sheeple in whatever store i am in, or from the police due to a "man with gun" call.

    And, by wearing concealed, I can much more easily ignore all those stupid and meaningless "guns not allowed" signs.
     
  15. jjhamilton

    jjhamilton JDBA4L JDBA Official Member

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    Word to the wise, those signs do make it a felony to carry concealed or openly on that property. "If caught"
     
  16. BenDibble

    BenDibble Resident Mortician JDBA Official Member Brigade Member

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    Not in MN.

    You will be asked to leave the property. If you refuse, the police will be called and escort you off the property. If you still refuse they can fine you $25. Haha.

    As for legislatively decreed safety zones such a prisons, schools, etc, I do not carry there.
     
  17. jjhamilton

    jjhamilton JDBA4L JDBA Official Member

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    Oh wow, I stand corrected. I was told by my CC instructor it was a felony in NC & reciprocating States.
     
  18. BenDibble

    BenDibble Resident Mortician JDBA Official Member Brigade Member

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    Better safe than sorry when teaching the class. CYA.
    But he could be referring to the "special" places such as schools, prisons, etc...
     
  19. jjhamilton

    jjhamilton JDBA4L JDBA Official Member

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    No, he was clear about it. Any business that posted a sign that stated no firearms allowed like Walmart, some convient stores etc... All federal or state run facilities are completely off limits, with the exception of parks which is a recent change here. Also can't carry anywhere that you pay to enter such as Fair, movie theater etc...or anywhere that serves alcohol
     
  20. BenDibble

    BenDibble Resident Mortician JDBA Official Member Brigade Member

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    Yikes. NC sounds like no fun.

    Our law is ever fairly lax on alcohol. You can legally have up to a .04 BAC. Of course you'd be foolish to carry while having alcohol in your system, but the law is the law...

    Minnesota Statutes ยง624.7142 "Carrying While Under Influence of Alcohol or Controlled Substance." The arbitrary legal limtit for alcohol concentration is set at 0.04. Carrying with 0.04 or higher alcohol concentration is defined as a misdemeanor crime.
     

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