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New 2017 Benchmade Balisong! Model 87

gunlove Dec 24, 2016

  1. PlntDr

    PlntDr Level: True Devil

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    I did not like the flipping and there was just something off with the pivots. That's just my opinion.
     
    BennytheBlade likes this.
  2. gunlove

    gunlove Average member

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    I thought it flipped pretty well, similar to the Rep.... the Rep might be my fave right at only $269 too
     
  3. Silent Jay

    Silent Jay Flips more than he speaks JDBA Official Member

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    I can honestly say I have not heard a single other person who has flipped one that would agree with you beyond Dave's 87 Promo flipping he did a while back at SHOT Show.

    The handles are thinner, wider, and have a lot of material removed from the milling. The magnetic latch in the bite handle makes it very noticeable that one handle is heavier than the other unlike having just a latch. And the blade is quite large.

    I have never heard someone decribe a rep as feeling like a BBarfly or a Kimura. Nor have I heard anyone claim the Rep was blade heavy (where as I have heard nothing but the 87 having a very notiable blade bias in balance.

    But, I have been told many times that I should go shut the fuck up because I haven't personally flipped something, ect, ect, over the years, so, might just be wasting time typing this to try to ask iun a very long and almost aggressive manner what about it makes you feel like it flips similar to a Rep.


    Most people only hate this knife because it flips like trash or they feel that BM could have done a LOT more with a bali that appeals to more people with the price range they came in at.

    People can artgue on BM's behalf that channel ti is worth the price beacsue manufacturing costs, ect. But for a bali, if you EDC, you can get a better blade steel for cheaper or somethign that has a pocket clip, and for flipping, you can get a better bali to flip for cheaper.

    This is a bali that only appeals to BM fans and collectors. And they WILL buy them, and BM will continue to not give one single real fuck because they will sell them anyway because people WANT to buy Benchmade balis.

    I've had this conversation more times than I can honestly count and a lot of the times it has been on this very forum.


    TL;DR: Guy I actually quoted - What about it to you makes it flip like a Rep

    To the dudes arguing with people over price - BM doesn't need you trying to defend them to people who are not their target market. Flippers and EDC guys are not who they sell their balis to. They sel;l the to collectors and fans. The end.
     
    DarklightY2K and seandavid55 like this.
  4. Linos

    Linos baliholickydexbender JDBA Official Member Knife Maker or Craftsman

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    ....53 ,51.....
     
  5. Jedi87

    Jedi87 Little Member

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    I've already bought my 2nd 87.

    There are 2 videos on YouTube already where flippers say that the 87 flips very well. I can also back that up as I love the way it flips!

    :helix:
     
  6. DarklightY2K

    DarklightY2K Huge member

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    To each his own.
    It's just not for me, I wouldn't say I HATE it though. That's reserved for far far worse.
     
  7. Silent Jay

    Silent Jay Flips more than he speaks JDBA Official Member

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    Yeah, and how well did the 53 do for them?

    And damn, you gonna mention the 51, but not the 32? Probably because neither did well as follow-ups to the 4x series. And if I'm not mistaken FlyTi was born out of helping sell 51s. So, sounds to me like it was more of a bust than not. And don't get me wrong, the 51 was nice, but not a knife I would have ever paid the $235 the originally sold for, let alone the $260 MSRP.

    The 53 was geared towards EDC but was so bad that it's not even still a product from them anymore. Go ahead and look at their product listings in their Bali-Song line. Go ahead and look that up. Wasn't even in their 2016 catalog they discontinued that garbage so fast.

    The 51 and 32 only even still sell because they finally are a lot cheaper. But people also like to drop in the extra money on top to get them outfitted to be better than what they are.

    So, to say they are actively trying to sell balis to the EDC community is more delusional than thinking they give a shit about flippers.

    The 87 appeals very strictly to the collector crowd. The only crowd that will buy it simply because it is a BM bali, and the only crowd that will jizz all over themselves at it being channel/integral handles.
     
  8. Silent Jay

    Silent Jay Flips more than he speaks JDBA Official Member

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    2 videos on YouTube and your purchases aren't much of a valid point.

    But hey, everyone can enjoy what they want. But I don't know a single top-flipper who liked how it flips. Hell, even more mid-tier flippers don't have anything genuinely positive to say beyond NOT talking shit, which makes sense as people have smartened up to not ruining the re-sale value of their knives anymore than they already are.

    Otherwise, I get a lot of vague answers such as "I like it, others do to" which doesn't explain what about it they like for flipping. Describe how it handles and why that appeals to you with regards to flipping. And we are well beyond the point in this sub-forum where "it opens smooth" is a valid response to how the bali handles for flipping. Everybody knows what is actually being talked about here.
     
    Herbinator74 likes this.
  9. Jedi87

    Jedi87 Little Member

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    Have you flipped an 87 yet?
     
  10. Silent Jay

    Silent Jay Flips more than he speaks JDBA Official Member

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    Deflecting and not answering the question I asked. (don't worry, this is a topic where that happens a LOT)

    But to answer you, I have not yet. If I happen upon one I can flip as a loaner to do a review with, then I will of course flip the very living shit out of one (within the confines of not damaging a loaner knife).
     
  11. Jedi87

    Jedi87 Little Member

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    Ok, your opinion makes complete sense now.

    :nana:
     
  12. Glenn

    Glenn Sol Invictus Knife Maker or Craftsman

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    You you a Top Flipper, or even the latter ?

    @Jedi87, you're at this forum less then a month, From your intro onward extracted from.

    I'm into any quality balisongs and have been flipping my 4x and alpha beast lately but now have really got into the 87.

    You've done nothing but blabber about the fucking 87, like it's a G-D send knife 95% of your postings related to.

    Do you work for BM ? Are you on the take to promote it ? If not shut the fuck up about it already, we know you like the knife .

    I'd take SJ's word, and any other TOP OG Flipper, and for christ sake just MY knowledge of knives, construction and weight to know what makes a "good flipper" And
    guess what Frances, the 87 ain't it.

    I'm so glad you love yours buy yourself some lube and stuff it up your ass , maybe you'll like it more.


     
    Silent Jay and seandavid55 like this.
  13. gunlove

    gunlove Average member

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    Yes, you should really flip one, you sound very passionate about it and it would definitely strengthen your argument.

    Compared to an AB & BM42, the Rep is more blade biased. The 87 has longer, wider, and lighter handles than the Flyti 51 or 42 and it feels much different than the Flyti 63. Thus to me it feels most like the Rep. I don't think it is a bad flipper. It's nowhere near the 51, 53, or 6x series.

    No one agrees on their favorite flippers on this forum, but there is a generally accepted list of about 5-10 knives. I don't think you should be so quick to throw the 87 out as a shit flipper, especially before you actually flip it yourself.
     
    BennytheBlade likes this.
  14. PlntDr

    PlntDr Level: True Devil

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    Ha ha ha well I have flipped it and think its a shit flipper. SJ is one of a few people that I think could critique this knive solely from specs and talking with other flippers.
     
    Silent Jay likes this.
  15. Jedi87

    Jedi87 Little Member

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    I love you.
     
  16. Glenn

    Glenn Sol Invictus Knife Maker or Craftsman

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    Fuck off , Troll.

    And fucking hell it's times like this wish we could dish out the REDS
     
  17. Jedi87

    Jedi87 Little Member

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    Using foul language doesn't improve your argument.

    A true flipper enjoys mastering any balisong he can get his hands on.

    Are you just upset that it's so expensive?
    :ratsrulez:
     
  18. PlntDr

    PlntDr Level: True Devil

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    Well, why not put a video of flipping your 87? Would go a long way to substantiate your opinion of the 87.
     
  19. Silent Jay

    Silent Jay Flips more than he speaks JDBA Official Member

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    And yet your's still manages to have even less ground to stand on... That is some shit right there.
    I can give descriptors from top flippers I have spoken to who have handled it that accurately describe how the bali handles. They can explain actual factors for their opinions. This mixed with Specs and design usually tell the same story. Now while preferences differ form flipper to flipper, there are still matters of basic design that stand true regardless.

    Your entire opinion is "I bought it and like it. You haven't flipped it so I'm right even though I am completely incapable of articulating a thought that would resemble an explanation"

    I intend to do just that. I love flipping as many balis as possible and having flipped more balis than I can keep track of, I've found over the years of reviewing, and flipping balis extensively I am very rarely even slightly off about how a bali handles with specs and visuals of the design. This is confirmed through handling the bali later, but that has come form years of experience in the matter.

    I have genuinely lost track of the number of times I have been told as an argument "well you haven't flipped xxxx" only to find out, I was right, and that many other flippers who had handled it also agreed. So trust me when I say, I've heard it, and I'm just very tired of hearing it over and over again, hence why I refrain from posting my personal thoughts on a bali before handling it. However, in this particular case, the statements I am reading here drastically conflict with every other answer I have gotten on the 87 from flippers who's opinions I value or trust (even if I disagree with quite a few of them on several balis).

    If that is the extent of your bali experience, I can see why you might fidn that to be an accurate comparison. To me, the 4x usually is in refference very exclusively to the 42 ti springlatch model. Unless specified otherwise it is always specified because of how the different blade shapes, t-latch vs Spring latch, SS vs ti, ect. all handle differently from one another. A rep may have more blade bias than say a 43, 43-401, 42SS, 41SS, ect. But in regards to a 42 ti spring latch, no, the rep definitely maintains a slight rear handle bias.

    The rep is also thicker handled and longer handles than the 4x, and at the ass-end thicker than the AB. However, the 87's handles are thinner than even the 42, probably more akin to a stock 51 or a Kimura. The handles, however, are wider than really any of the balis you described giving it a unique handle shape and feel. This is slightly offest where the grooves are deeper. The blade is a large profile and does not feature a hollow-grind. This coupled with large cut outs in the handles to reduce weight even further in ti, leave it more likely to maintain an even greater blade bias as the blade is such a shape and size to maximize handle-fill. This, is where you get you actual blade bias.

    The Rep, does not fit into this. the rep does have a large tip, which gives it a blade-bias that reaches the tip, but it is offset but the lack of milling in the ti as well as the ti-block spacers.

    In open rolls this gives the Rep a more slightly neutral balance with a slight handle bias that approaches the rear of the handles, where when the blade is enclosed into the bite handle, it creates a pure rear handle bias.

    Those two balis definitely do not flip similarly at all. I have heard You and Dave as the onl;y ones to make that comparison. Dave was preforming at SHOT Show and was put on the spot to describe it and he knows the Rep is one of the most popular balis for flippers. But he also compared it to a BBarfly in terms of the handles. Again, that was an on the spot "give an answer now" situation under pressure.

    No other flipper I have spoken to would make that comparison as they are simply not similar in any fashion.

    Again, if that is the closest thing you can think of because you have limited experience, that's fine. But just know, it comes off as extremely uninformed if you make a comparison to another bali that is inaccurate. Hence why it is best to not compare balis in my opinion, when describing how they flip (at least beyond a compare and contrast situation).

    Thanks man hahaha. been doin it for years, but gotta say, happens most when people are defending garbage (see DDR and $nody for details).
     
  20. Silent Jay

    Silent Jay Flips more than he speaks JDBA Official Member

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    You're asking too much. he is of the "it opens smooth because of the bearings. I paid a lot for it so I am superior"-crowd.

    Not even worth the argument to be honest.
     

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