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Job Outsourcing

Nmam Oct 15, 2010

  1. Nmam

    Nmam Average member

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    Work Outsourcing . That's what they call it when they allow jobs to be exported, but what about the multitude of companies who are allowing workers to come here on B1 Visas, and take jobs ?

    I'm visiting family in New England after attending a work conference, and I listened to management types brag at the conference how they have reduced their costs significantly by sending some positions overseas. One guy said he paid last year 80K and now, by using chinese workers, their cost was only 26.5K for the same work.

    While this was all fresh in our minds from these people bragging , I went to visit my cousin and his family, average Americans in probably every sense of the term, and he told me that probably BOTH if them would be unemployed in 2011 due to their positions being outsourced. I couldn't believe it , then he said come to the office and let me show you something.

    At the end of the day, I am not shitting you, a literal FLOOD of Indians, Pakistanis, came from their building and they filled two large commuter buses, one after another. My cousin told me that they are ALL B1 Visa holders, and you could tell them apart readily because their ID cards are different colors from FT regular workers because they are contract workers.

    Now wait for it, this gets better Devils, a portion of those immigrant workers are here, being trained by the FT company personnel, then they are to return to India, and the workers here will be dismissed !

    Excuse me , but I thought that B1 visas were supposed to be only to provide workers that supposedly could not be found , ie there is a shortage of them available.

    I seriously doubt there is a shortage of MIS trained personnel anywhere in the USA these days with the economy being what it is, but ACCOUNTANTS being unavailable ???

    These companies are complete shit heads in my opinion. I know they need to make profits, but maybe they should begin with slicing those top people's salaries (CEO, CFO, etc) before they make more Americans homeless, and send more of our jobs out to BONGO- BONGO land .

    Anybody else suffering from this discrimination ? Yes, that is what it is, they are choosing THEM over US .
     
  2. choombak

    choombak Huge member

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    B1 visa holders are *not* allowed to work - it is a visitor visa, and the maximum stay limit is no more than 2 months. What you are probably referring to is the H1B visa.

    What you also describe is a routine outsourcing process, and is the result of the rot in your system. Seriously, unless you fix your Government and their policies, there is nothing that can be changed.

    Note that I am not trying to pick a fight with you, but do understand your anguish over losing job - when you have a family to support. But things are horribly wrong at your end, and thost must be fixed if jobs are to be saved.
     
  3. Nmam

    Nmam Average member

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    Thanks for replying Choombak.

    First I need to clarify some issues, I am NOT the one who is about to become unemployed. I work for the US Military, and when the day comes that we are "outsourced" none of us will want to be anywhere near these shores.

    I did not explain fully, but this company does, and has hired people who are on tourism visas, then did the paperwork for them to take positions which they already held, so they are doing BOTH.

    Regardless of that, the supposition was that these are jobs which cannot be filled by Americans and that is obviously not true. Companies are using loopholes to raise their profit margins, and what I am asking is simply this, if a company needs to result to such measures to increase their profits WHY aren't those in top leadership roles being the very first to take cuts in pay or bonus amounts. No other countries pay exorbitant salaries for their company leaders.

    This forum does not engage in politics, and I am not attempting to do so either, but you are correct in one way, it is everyone's fault. Not simply one person. Or group. We want cheaper goods and when American workers need $20.00 per hour to sweep floors , then there is no way for a company to be competitive when a foreign plant is paying people $5.00 per day.
    The companies here provide contributions to the politicians, who vote these ideas for us.

    What I am saying is we need to be educated on the companies who are guilty of simply seeking profits rather than work with us. More restrictions on what can be called "MADE IN AMERICA" , and yes, some industries in particular are going to have to take pay cuts or none of us will survive.
     
    El Gringo likes this.
  4. El Gringo

    El Gringo dashing devil

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    Damn straight!
     
  5. BGadvocate

    BGadvocate Better than gold or platinum

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    Nmam, has a good take and perspective. Yup, we are in a "Global Economy"....deal with it. Once the first Fortune 500 company offshores labor to increase profits....the other 499 will follow. Offshoring does create jobs locally, because it typically is a blended (mix) model. Corporate America is very trendy and has just about reached full-circle since offshoring started. Trendy= just look at all the companies now using Facebook and Twitter....social media and networking tools are the big wave, but once the wave comes to shore whats next for the Marketing gurus? Once 3rd world countries economics improve and rates rise (already seeing this) the offshore model will cancel itself out and prove useless.
     
  6. tubtar

    tubtar high caliber consecrator Moderator Super Moderator Brigade Member

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    " Excuse me , but I thought that B1 visas were supposed to be only to provide workers that supposedly could not be found , ie there is a shortage of them available. "

    In a sense , they are replacing workers who cannot be found.
    Workers who will not bend over and get fucked in the ass by companies who treat them worse than paper clips.
    This is a real sore spot with me and I have been involved in the struggle for a long , long time.
    Some twenty years ago , I first heard the battle cry.............." we need to close the gap in wages between developed and developing countries."
    I knew immediately that they did not mean to do it by bringing their wages up.
    I have been paying attention since the early 70's when I first entered the work force , and before that from observing life as I knew it at home.
    My Father worked for the railroad as a conductor and made a very nice living.
    He raised six Sons , and our Mother didn't go to work until the youngest was in school...........not out of necessity , but out of a desire to have a higher standard of living.
    And we didn't want for anything..........we had new clothes every school year , bikes , toys , sporting equipment and league fees.
    Medical care that was excellent.
    I don't recall ever being hungry.
    An occasional vacation.
    In short , a life that you could not attain with out both parents working full time today.
    If the day care and health care costs didn't eat up any " discretionary " income first , you might come close.
    But working families...........real working families who used to make up a solid middle class in this country have been getting fucked over for years and years.
    And after enough long dicking , they apparently got used to the taste of the dick to the point where they would miss it if it went away.
    Most of the country is pacified by American Idol and distracted by the constant stream of bullshit we are fed , so that real facts are viewed with suspicion.
    The American companies gave up looking long term and took to hanging their hats on quarterly results and short term goals.
    And the biggest change has to be in the level of executive compensation.
    Their wages go up , and the quality and level of service goes in the shitter.
    Rewarding them for providing less.
    And we , as a people , allowing it and accepting it as " good ".
    Makes me want to fucking puke.
    They are reducing their customer base at the same time , because let's face it , the third world employees they replace us with are not buying new cars , refrigerators , televisions etc. etc.
    They aren't being paid enough to maintain a standard of living anywhere close to what we have enjoyed............and why should they be ?
    The service and goods they provide are largely shit.
    Good deal..........give a CEO another bonus.
    Then buy their book and read about how tough they had it and how great they are.
    For every one time this rings true , there are dozens where they are just self aggrandizing wastes of paper.
    I wish I had a realistic answer.
    I think it is a fucking disgrace how things have gotten in this country and am pretty amazed that it has gone on for as long as it has with no mass revolt.
    Because it is wrong.
    Just plain fucking wrong.
     
    El Gringo likes this.
  7. RoadFish

    RoadFish Cathar Knight

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    Raw, bottom line, fuck the social impact Capitalism at its best.
     
  8. tubtar

    tubtar high caliber consecrator Moderator Super Moderator Brigade Member

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    This doesn't sound like the America I love.
    You are going to get ass raped.....bend over and smile ?
    Outsourcing creates jobs ?
    Sure...........skilled machinists and manufacturing workers are outsourced and then shipping clerks and janitors fill the void.
    If you listen to the local chamber of commerce and enough business groups , you will learn that workers are payed way too much.
    Yet executive compensation has skyrocketed for the last 30 years and hourly wages have declined in real dollars.
    Our buying power has gone backwards.
    Health care costs have gone ballistic.
    The quality of care has gone to shit.
    Yes...........SHIT !
    Unless you are a Senator or Congressman.
    How many of us have had to argue to get some form of treatment paid for by insurers , who deny a doctor recommended or referred treatment.
    Yes.........an accountant makes decisions for our health.
    How many layers have been added to this system , complicating it to a point nearly on par with government.
    Tuition has nearly kept pace with health care.
    Food costs ?
    Ditto.
    Heat and electricity ?
    Yep.........them too.
    What has improved ?
    This is a matter of opinion and degrees.
    My wages are higher............more because I work significantly harder than any increases given by any companies I have worked for.
    67 hours this week.
    But I can afford an occasional vacation this way.
    All work and no play etc. etc.
    But having to listen to any pro business rant that you hear these days makes me want to punch a motherfucker in the neck.
    Their reality and mine are radically different.
    The Global economy has helped out more millionaires than workers.
    Sure , it has been a boon to the economies of India and China.
    But it has shorted our country and is being paid for by the same people who it is slowly choking the shit out of.
     
  9. shawnpatterson

    shawnpatterson Huge member

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    outsourcing+migrant workers=layoffs

    I work and live in CT. My company was bought out(51%) by this internation corporate monster called Tenova. We make huge multi million dollar rolling mills that are considered top of the line for the metal processes we do. Im in the fabrication department that consists of me and 3 other guys including a working supervisor.
    Well when these pricks from Tenova started holding these meeting for all the shop and office personel together with catered food and Tenova T-shirts by the box load i knew we were in for a stroking of monumental proportions.
    Phrases like .."we need to emrace china and taiwan as our allies not the enemy" or "sharing thecnology and training programs will benefit both sides" but in the long run, all that happy happy stroke-a-rama amounted to our top guys from each department going to china, training their workers how to do what we do and then slowly but surely "outsource" hundreds of hours worth of work to them. The real kick in tha balls is when i talked to one of the owners about the low quality product comng back from china and the hours our guys here put into fixing the chinese fuck ups he tells me that evn with the shipping costs both ways, the maching, welding and assembly work going into it here after they did 75% of the work in china, our companies profit margin still increases by 50%..
    The thing my co-workers dont realize is, they want to work twice as hard now, put in 110% over the top expectations of our employers and hope we look good enough at the end of the day to save our jobs down the road...The reality is YouCant Compete With Slave Labor.. Its te wave of the future. I remember growing up int he 80's the bumper stickers "Buy American" and all the pride in American made shit. Now, shit, nobody cares.. We cant afford to, The price range is so wide that if you can find a product that works for $20 made in china or an American made one for $35... I know, we Devils will pay the extra for a quality tool that will last forever but most people do no fucking care. If there wasnt a market for foreign made cheap shit, they wouldnt be knocking on our doors and flooding the stores with their bullshit
     
    tubtar likes this.
  10. Mike Stewart

    Mike Stewart Knife Moderator/Bark River Knife & Tool

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    A very Sad statement.
     
  11. sickboy

    sickboy Marsupial Brigade Member

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    I'm all for someone bettering themselves, but I need to find a new job, and get paid a decent wage. They say they are having a hard time these days finding skilled workers here in the states. I think they can't find a skilled enough worker willing to work for nothing. If they were paid equivilant wages to ours in China and India, those people would live like kings and fall into the excess that we did. In another 100 years they will oursource jobs to the good old USA, as most of the population will be dirt fucking poor. I just heard on the news today that in another year there will be more people turinig 60 than kids in highschool. Unless we want to self-fulfill this bullshit we have bestowed upon our selves, jobs need to move back. The American worker needs to get off his/her lazy ass and accually work. We need to take pride in what is made here. I bought a Subaru, because MORE of the vehicle is made here then "American" car and it is safer and more reliable than an "American" car. (That all may be bullshit.) I try to buy "American" as much as possible, but there are times things don't stack up.

    sickboy
     
  12. 5150phlipper

    5150phlipper Average member

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    Yep. I was a computer network engineer for a large company. They started talking about outsourcing my position. My manager unofficially advised my whole group that we should start working on our resumes one day. The company opened a new call center in India. We started using conference calls to work on problems and projects jointly with the new hires in India. A few months later 10 of us got our pink slips.
     
  13. RoadFish

    RoadFish Cathar Knight

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    While USA companies are rewarded for taking their jobs to the lowest bidder in the world, things will only get worse for American workers.
     
  14. Meridian Blades

    Meridian Blades Got Wood? Knife Maker or Craftsman

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    This is a sad reality that everyone is dealing with right now. I guess to me theres a few things that come to mind.

    1). Until people in the U.S. (consumers) REALLY start standing up and refusing to buy goods from companies that outsource (pretty much all retailers got the sweatshops rolling somewhere), then the greed of profit will rule the day, and everyone will suffer except those fortunate few on top. There's not another country in the world that has a salary ratio of CEO / Exec versus worker bee like ours. Last 30 yrs its off the chart....

    2). I don't think the workers on the otherside of the world gain from this either. Most of them are exploited, worked to death with very little pay (on their scale of pay) and receive very little in the way of benefits.

    3). Lots of times the products that they produce are not quality and so the consumer suffers from things like lack of quality control, and even unsafe things like lead poisoning etc. In other words, yeah you got a great deal on that the new space heater, but that really sucks your house burnt down. AKA - You get what you pay for.

    4). Lastly, theres a huge stigma with being unemployed. Its almost like it's UnAmerican, and your work defines you. So when you lose your job, no matter what you say the reason was, people think...." Oh jeez why don't you pull yourself up by the bootstraps and just go get another job"? "What are you lazy?" "Why did you buy that house if you couldn't afford it?"

    Meanwhile, the CEO just added another 4% to the bottomline based on the ROI of shipping your duties overseas, and put himself down for a nice little Christmas bonus.....

    I have to agree with Tubtar "makes me want to punch a motherfucker in the neck"...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2010
  15. Rat Finkenstein

    Rat Finkenstein Finkenstein shit kid Brigade Member

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    Why the bigwigs do not take the hit- they make the calls and shit rolls downhill.
     
  16. Meridian Blades

    Meridian Blades Got Wood? Knife Maker or Craftsman

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    Rat,
    You see the greed over take them sometimes, and thats when they fall. Denny Hecker, Tom Petters and Trevor Cook......but its amazing what they gotta do to actually fall from the top. Drunk with power and greed, otherwise they are pretty untouchable....
     
  17. RoadFish

    RoadFish Cathar Knight

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  18. RNST

    RNST Entrusted Devil Super Moderator

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    In reality, the problem lies with us the consumers because we demand the absolute lowest prices on everything we purchase. Not supporting small local businesses has its downside if you will only buy from large box stores.

    If the manufacturer can not reduce the costs of the raw materials, bank payments, taxes; then they have to look at reducing cost of labour.

    I am guilty of paying the lowest cost on electronics, where I shop for food, etc. I do try to buy local from smaller retailers if it makes sense.

    My business is wireless and the OEM's I sell to rarely make anything in Canada anymore. Most are designing their products here and sending the designs to China, India, Vietnam, Mexico (this is changing because they are too expensive now) and Brazil.

    This creates a headache for me because I am paid on 'design wins' and if the rep elsewhere also claims the same 'design win' then we have to show proof. It means showing a paper trail. Just an added step in getting paid for something that was easy to prove years ago.
     
  19. RoadFish

    RoadFish Cathar Knight

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    Don't go blaming the consumer. Are workers in Canada and other Western countries paid enough to not look for the lowest price for similar goods? Show me a piece of consumer electronics that doesn't include parts or assemblage in a non-third world country. Give me a list of Western companies that state in their company charters that their goal is not the bottom line, but to pay decent wages and provide employees with necessary health insurance? There still might be a few small companies run with the welfare of the employees in mind, but not many.
     
  20. dragoncutlery

    dragoncutlery knifemaker Knife Maker or Craftsman

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    i say let them outsource but have a max percent of work force say 5-10% max off us soil to contrys that don't support us as an economy as well, and 10-20% to cuntrys supporting this economy as well might help to keep it from getting out of hand any further

    so companys would have to keep a large workforce here if they want to have one over there hell even if there all in shipping and receiving its still work and better than flipping burgers

    and start sending union reps over to get that ball of bees rolling that will fix them

    and of coarse try to support your local (if you can find one) businesses

    personally other than my harbor freight addiction i send most of my money to mom and pops all over to get knife supplies and such and at one point over 70% of my income went that way then i had to get a real job and a house so most of it goes to the bank now ahhhh the american dream :bwah:
     

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