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ATF to ban M855 ball, restricts 80% receivers

Stabber Nov 25, 2014

  1. Ryanol

    Ryanol SnarkMasterFunkyFresh JDBA Official Member

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    Well to be fair to all the shitferbrains you have to assume every tom dick and harry with a plastic molding setup wanted a slice and submitted products as well.
     
  2. TopHat

    TopHat Drivin' that train..... Brigade Member

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    Well, am I wrong? I recall retailers advertising it as a means of owning a legal SBR without the cost and delay of registration, or words to that effect.

    From the Open Letter in the OP itself: "However, ATF has received numerous inquiries regarding alternate uses for this device, including use as a shoulder stock."

    No assumption was necessary.


    If you ask a question enough times, you will eventually get an answer you don't want to hear. Even my 12 year old understands that concept..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2015
  3. ronrod71

    ronrod71 Level: True Devil

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    How fucking dumb do you have to be...a nice common sense loop hole gone to shit with typical tool wad stupidity.
     
    Mike Grasso likes this.
  4. BenDibble

    BenDibble Resident Mortician JDBA Official Member Brigade Member

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    It all comes down to the simple rule of, you bend the rules far enough, and often enough, they will break and you will lose your leeway.

    Especially all those instagram commandos using the brace purposefully as a stock and advertising as such. way to go doofus.
     
  5. norcal13

    norcal13 rated "e" for evil Brigade Member

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    i don't see any leeway besides redefining words in the english language.
    it's not illegal to shoulder a buffer tube.
    i truly don't see the difference.
     
  6. unreconstructedgordo

    unreconstructedgordo Level: True Devil

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    I like to press a padded pistol buffer tube into my class 3 armor vest to index on the RD , very comfy and legal . :devilfinger:

    Ask Indians how the government stand behind their word ! :devilroll:
     
  7. L R Harner

    L R Harner They call me "Butch" Knife Maker or Craftsman

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    i ll jsut leave this reight here
    10926376_10205644370489369_8819710107558268046_n.jpg
     
    norcal13 likes this.
  8. norcal13

    norcal13 rated "e" for evil Brigade Member

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    :bwah::bwah::bwah:

    reminds me of last year when california was going to make any semi-auto an "assault rifle".

    then they figured out that any AR or other rifle that had a bullet button would be grandfathered in by default. allowing people to restore their rifles to original configuration..... making thousands of "assault rifles" legal instantly.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2015
  9. Mike Grasso

    Mike Grasso "to protect and to serve" Super Moderator Brigade Member

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    If it is a pistol buffer tube you are ok.

    If it is a normal buffer tube AND you are in possession of a stock that can fit it, it is a felony.
    It's called a "constructive Intent (possession)"
    It's one of the reasons you don't purchase your SBR upper before the lower gets papered.

    The problem with the brace isn't semantics, nor is the definition being "redefined".
    It is not being used in the manner it was approved....
    Oh, and idiots are posting pictures.
     
  10. norcal13

    norcal13 rated "e" for evil Brigade Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2015
  11. norcal13

    norcal13 rated "e" for evil Brigade Member

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    neither have i "made or remade" a knife into a screwdriver if i use it to tighten up some scissors.
     
  12. BenDibble

    BenDibble Resident Mortician JDBA Official Member Brigade Member

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    this is true, but it is also not illegal to misuse a knife as a screwdriver.

    Whereas if you misuse a forearm brace into a shoulder stock, you are illegally changing the intended use and therefor redesigning it as a shoulder stock.
     
    crogers likes this.
  13. norcal13

    norcal13 rated "e" for evil Brigade Member

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    ATF said it legally wasn't a stock.
    it's a brace by THEIR definition.

    and the definition of redesign is to change something.
    the item in question isn't changed when it gets put on someones shoulder.
    in fact it stays the same.
    according to the NFA you need intent AND redesigning or remaking for it to be illegal.

    by shouldering you only have intent and neither redesigning or remaking.

    thus my assertion that ATF is redefining words in the law to suit their agenda.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2015
  14. Mike Grasso

    Mike Grasso "to protect and to serve" Super Moderator Brigade Member

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    I am not attempting to be argumentative, but its purely semantics.

    The purpose of the "Arm Brace" is to be an arm brace.

    If you change it's purpose, i.e.. shoulder it, the law applies.

    Best to put it on a Pistol AR, one that has never had a stock and was registered as such. Use is as intended, Don't put pictures on the internet and follow the letter of the law.

    Then you're fine.

    As for the letter, you linked to, the paragraph is quite clear to me, but I have been reading laws for 35 years. I'd not go to a public range and start shooting it in that manner.

    Glad I'm living in Indiana!!! ATF.jpg

    AAC.jpg
     
  15. Parker

    Parker Former Village People Roadie Knife Maker or Craftsman

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    This starts to sound a lot like that fuckwit in Wisconsin who, as an armorer, possessed an AR15 which could go full-tilt, then lent it to some dopey kid and encouraged him to publicly find the full-auto position. He did. And the idiot is now a felon with a bad case of butt-hurt.

    The more people insist on poking the eye of an agency which is known to spuriously change its mind AND those changes can result in the poker becoming a felon, best to fly low and quietly.

    Or just post this shit on Instagram and become a felon by your own hand, whichever works better.......

    Grasso - you suck. Nobody should have they much fun 12 inches at a time without a contract in Century City.:jdwink2:
     
  16. D2AP

    D2AP Better than gold or platinum

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  17. falcon125

    falcon125 the express train to mayhem Brigade Member

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    ATF like most government agency's is staffed by morons. The Sig brace was designed as a stock and made hollow, then they added a velcro strap just to call it something it aint. Pretty fucking obvious to the average gun guy. Sig lied and cheated the system.
    Which is why so many people questioned ATF.
    Just because their first ruling was STUPID and made them look like the idiots they are, does not mean they cant change their mind.

    What I would like to know is what is the big deal with an SBR to begin with? Its not a rifle, its not a pistol. So what advantage does it give to a criminal? You can own a .44 mag but not a 12" barrel .223 with a shoulder stock that still takes 2 hands to shoot with any accuracy. Most crimes take place face to face, a fucking .22 will kill you from that distance.

    If gun people spent more time challenging the existing laws instead of finding ways around them we would all be better off.
     
    Mike Grasso likes this.
  18. norcal13

    norcal13 rated "e" for evil Brigade Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2015
  19. Mike Grasso

    Mike Grasso "to protect and to serve" Super Moderator Brigade Member

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    I read it. March of last year, prior to everyone going lame on the internet, wouldn't be the first time they changed their minds.
    The whole thing stinks.
    We always bone ourselves on this stuff cause we are too stupid to keep our mouths shut.
    We are looking at some major ATF reform with the right kind of people in line.
    Major reform, and that's from friends inside.
    I'm just hoping this cools down.
    SIG is all pissed over their MPX fiasco, so they are keeping this alive.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2015
  20. norcal13

    norcal13 rated "e" for evil Brigade Member

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    it drives me nuts that they effectively legislate with opinion letters that can be overturned by another letter the next day.
    i think that's what sticks in my craw so much about this......

    i'll be over here with my fingers crossed.
     

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