user knives and serrations

[ericsgreen]

I remeber when I first found serrated knives, I was 12 or 13...I still wonder what makes the best user, plain or serrated...

For a kid with little sharpener time serrations were revoultionary...

with a plain edge you can sharpen it down to a toothpick...but the real cutting power and versitility is in serrations, you just have both thats all there is too it. what do yall think

seems like it would also be more costly to produce serrated knives, yet collectors want plain edge, soon people are going to think serrated knives are now more rare.


An while I here, I just got a new UT tanto and the serrations look like the were milled out CNC style instead of being cut with a round file or whatever...anyone have any idea if that is right? Are normal serrations sharpened out on production knives or jsut milled and touched up?

[Brian]

I believe that serrations were ground using a serration wheel. Not sure if new technology (CNC) has taken over.

I have struggled with which type blade was best over the years and I have settled on both. ;-)

I like serrated edge blades for utility, emergency, etc. I like PE for normal day to day chores.

I definetly don't like to sharpen serrated edges.

I remeber when I first found serrated knives, I was 12 or 13...I still wonder what makes the best user, plain or serrated...

For a kid with little sharpener time serrations were revoultionary...

with a plain edge you can sharpen it down to a toothpick...but the real cutting power and versitility is in serrations, you just have both thats all there is too it. what do yall think

seems like it would also be more costly to produce serrated knives, yet collectors want plain edge, soon people are going to think serrated knives are now more rare.


An while I here, I just got a new UT tanto and the serrations look like the were milled out CNC style instead of being cut with a round file or whatever...anyone have any idea if that is right? Are normal serrations sharpened out on production knives or jsut milled and touched up?

[Mike Stewart]

Most poduction knives are serrated with a serrator.

It is a machine with a big revolving stone. The face of the stone is dressed with a diamond dressor to shape the stone to the desired serrations. The knife is then touched to the revolving stone.

It's just that simple. Serrations are actually put on knives--After the knife is finished. The serrator put in the serrations and sharpens them at the same time.

I have seen fully Automated CNC serrators in action and I have seen manual ones too. I actually had one years ago that was manual. The stone turned and you just held the knife to it and wham--it was serrated.

You can also put in serrations with a die grinder or even a stack of cut-off wheels on a dremel tool.

ME??--never use them--not even on a Bread Knife.--Nothin' beats just plain razor sharp.

Mike..................

[ericsgreen]

Most poduction knives are serrated with a serrator.

It is a machine with a big revolving stone. The face of the stone is dressed with a diamond dressor to shape the stone to the desired serrations. The knife is then touched to the revolving stone.

It's just that simple. Serrations are actually put on knives--After the knife is finished. The serrator put in the serrations and sharpens them at the same time.

I have seen fully Automated CNC serrators in action and I have seen manual ones too. I actually had one years ago that was manual. The stone turned and you just held the knife to it and wham--it was serrated.

You can also put in serrations with a die grinder or even a stack of cut-off wheels on a dremel tool.

ME??--never use them--not even on a Bread Knife.--Nothin' beats just plain razor sharp.

Mike..................

Its just like there are grooves along the serrations just like in the stain finish ,perpendicular to the length of the knife...it really looks milled I might be able to get apic...I have some nylow webbing just like older GM seatbelt I got on ebay, I tested my new serrations, they are still nasty little fiber eaters, they just dont look pretty...


Mike, I dont believe you dont own a serrated knife, I mean I hate to try and put them on the edge pro, but cmon serrated will rip through something or someone in a dire situatuation...and they will stay useable longer in a place where you cant get much sharpening done.

Why wouldnt you (anyone) want a serrated knife, this is why I made this post, I know there are guys that just wont have it, it makes it hard to justify buying a serrated knife if I think I may resell it:dammit: but in a tanto I gots to have it

[Mike Stewart]

I thiink that you should always buy what you like.

If you worry about re-sale you will not be getting what you want.

I have never found it necessary to carry a serrated blade because all the knives I carry are always razor sharp and will cut anything as easily.

You should not consider me an average user because maintaining a blade for me is a walk from my office to--the plant floor and taking less than a minute to have the knife back to hair splittin' sharp.

Mike....................:wave:

[ericsgreen]

im not trying to pick on you here

but youre saying serrations are completely pointless, a razor sharp plain edge will not get through seatbelt as fast and easily, I did test it. Maybe your saying not pointless, but lazy or semi-unskilled, I cant get the right word here...

I have an edge pro and I know how to use it, but Ive never had one of your pieces and I see them mentioned reapetedly in "the sharpest knife" threads...

maybe Im not getting all I can out of my plain edges, but that would mean most people arent either...


I think you should have a serrated model too, why not?

my favorite fixed is my strider Bn-ss 13" overall it has spine serrations, but really they are more like CRK saw teeth...I love spine serrations and serrations...especially on small blades and tantos...

[Mike Stewart]

Eric,

I didn't think you were picking on me at all.

We certianly can have different opinions without any problems.

Serrations are jagged. they cut because they are jagged. They cut very well and as long as they are jagged they will continue to cut very well.

I never said that folks should not buy and use them. I just don't need them. You can't cut that seat belt webbing any faster than I can with a truly sharp knife.

I don't have an edge pro or any other kind of sharpening device. I keep my knives sharp and believe in maintaining edges --not re-sharpening them. Unless you chip or roll the edge there should never be a time that a knife has to actually be re-sharpened. Touched up--yes-- but not re-sharpened.

A quick strop is all that is usually needed to maintain an edge with proper geometry.

I'm not criticizing serrated edge knives--they sell like hot cakes and tons of folks use them everyday. I just don't need them. I am at no disadvantage having a razor sharp plain edge.

My Strider is a plain edge--it came razor sharp and with a little stropping it is now like a scapal. It should never need re-sharpening. I'll just maintain the edge.

I certianly do respect your opinion and I know You respect mine.

Mike....................................

[ericsgreen]

Good stuff

I think what youre saying is pretty interesting...I never really thought that I could keep a knife from getting dull, in those simple words, I know to strop but it just seems like the most basic edge maitnence, quick. I dont have that much confidence in stroping, maybe I should look closer there...the only trouble then would be the rare occasion where you need to do some kind of serious cutting, not like you could strop in mid job

I know strider sharp, I love the clip point sng's and smf's...my gen one smf is just about ready to go on the edge pro first time ever, its been my most carried knife for a year or so...I may have been able to really delay that with better stroping, s30v and all with the mans heat treat.

One thing is you rarely see fully serrated knives, so you have the option, rarely do you need more than half a plain edge. I dont think I could ever be convinced that plain edge blades are equal to serrated in all cutting situations.


I have , of course, heard of Bark river but I never looked through your site. I REALLY like that mikro canadian, I dont feel good carrying big fixed blades in my metro area, but I love little ones, wouldnt we all rather JUST carry fixed blades if we could...I know I would. Do most BRKT blades come with a sheath? The axes are nicely priced and cool looking too...whats with the grooves in mid tang, are they finger grooves for control, I like it, looks like it anyhow. sorry to drag your buissness out here, you could pm me if Im wrong here...and I saw some custom stuff in post here , can that be ordered anytime or is it special runs? Like the turquiose tantos and the mikro's , I like the dang minis too...

[LONE WOLF]

I think serrations are good on small knives to increase the cutting edge (think about places with length laws), but other than that I have no need for them. The reason being ease of resharpening. I like something I can strop on a piece of note book or my belt when the edge starts to dull a little. Eventually I find all my knives need sharpening, but stropping them seems to postpone the inevitable so to speak. Stropping is next to impossible for serrated knives (I have heard some use leather lace, but I never tried it). It's all a personal choice of choosing what drawbacks you are willing to accept and measuring the benefits. For me, PE is best.

[blackwatch]

Though stropping seems like and kinda is, very basic maintenance, that's for a good reason. It is. At one point, I thought it was just...extra...that you wouldn't get much out of it.

Once I started thinking about stropping more, and tried it, I was amazed. Before stropping, on just rough leather, my BRK&T Mikro II may catch on tape (I use it a lot) but, with just stropping, the tape falls away with no resistance. I use tape because it is one of those materials that doesn't resist much, it wants to crumple instead of being seperated.

Stropping, while basic in the sense of a more common or simple exercise, really works on two levels (if I'm actually right in my thinking. this is personal ideas plus learning from other forums. please correct any errors).

First level is very basic stropping, which aligns the edge properly. If you are cutting with a rolled edge, then your almost using the side of your blade to cut, from a perspective. Once your knife is straightened out, things cut much better.

Second level, while stropping with compound (which you load a strop with) I think it refines and tightens the grain of the edge, even more. Picture, no matter how sharp an edge is, it still can have micro-serrations. This will vary with the grit of the sharpenening medium. 60grit paper will have much larger micro-serrations than 2000grit. Stropping compound (and higher grit stones) have a much finer grain, and this translates directly to your knife. The tighter the grain, the more sharp points and penetrating edge you have. Sharper!

So, stropping brings sharp knives up to full potential. Please, again, if some part of my theory is wrong, useless, or just doesn't matter for here, forgive me. Just trying to spread my thin knowledge aboot.

On a very related note, I had 1/2 serrated knives for a long time. I think I have gotten rid of almost all of them. I didn't hate them, my tasted just changed. Plus, I agree that a very sharp PE knife does a great job.

[Mike Stewart]

There is stropping and then there is stropping.

I never use a knife without stropping it First.

That strop I have with me most of the time.

It's my pants leg.

Knives get dull--all by themselves. It's called micro-oxidation on the edge from just sitting.

You should take it off BEFORE you make your cut.

You cut then strop it again on your pants leg and put the knife away.



Then you have maintainence Stropping.

You don't have to have any fancy equipment.

I carry a small piece of cardboard from the back of a notebook in a plastic bag in my gear. Tt is charges with polishing compound on one side.

I have never had to use anything more than that in the field in Hunting or Camping.

Then there is formal stropping.

For that you use a strip of leather glued to a block of wood and charge that with your favorite compound and it is the lst thing you do when re-touching or re-sharpening your edge.

I actually have two blocks. One had just plain leather on it. the other one has two strips of leather. One on each side. One side is charged with Black cutting compound and the other is charged with Green finishing compound.

You strop first on the black--then on the green and then on the plain leather.

You use very light pressure and just make sure the edge is firmly contactiing the surface.

It's fast and easy and you will not have to evern remove much metal to restore your edge.

Your total investment is some scrap wood and you can cut up an old belt for the leather. It is amazing how they sometimes shrink as I get older.

Mike...........................