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Thread: The government is hoarding ammo away

  1. #1

    The government is hoarding ammo away

    This is getting crazier by the day it seems. Earlier in the year, DHS and ICE bought 450 MILLION rounds of ammo in various calibers, most of them being JHP. Fast forward to yesterday when I see that they put in an order for an ADDITIONAL 750 MILLION rounds. If that wasn't weird enough, The NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE (?!) put in an order for approximately 46,000 rounds of .40 S&W JHP.

    What in the hell is going on, and why in the hell does DHS/ICE need that much ammunition, not to mention, why in the hell does the NWS need ammo at all?!


    http://www.businessinsider.com/the-n...unition-2012-8

    http://www.naturalnews.com/035649_DH...estic_war.html

    https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...150cb&_cview=0

    http://www.businessinsider.com/us-im...of-ammo-2012-3

    http://www.presstv.com/usdetail/256028.html

    http://www.infowars.com/dhs-to-purch...ounds-of-ammo/

    I'm actually pretty concerned about this. Anyone else have any thoughts?

    Brent
    "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything."

  2. #2
    Better than gold or platinum Komitadjie's Avatar
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    This kind of has to be taken with a grain of salt as well, though. Bear in mind that most of these are long-term contracts, running out into ten years or more as I recall from my reading. Figure if a single agent only fires 50 rounds a month in training (I wouldn't think you would want to use much less than that!), that's 600 rounds per man, per year. Figuring even just a thousand agents for a given agency, that's 600 THOUSAND rounds per year, expended in training only. Times a ten-year contract? That's 60 MILLION rounds fired in training alone. And you can bet that ICE and DHS have way north of a thousand agents under arms. According to Wikipedia, the border patrol alone has 20,200 agents. Now, not all of them are going to be armed, but even if half of them are, that's still well north of six MILLION rounds fired in training per year, for that one agency alone.

    The numbers are large in terms of rounds, but spread them out over the number of agents they have to equip and the number of years they're spread over? I'd say it makes perfect sense to lock in contracts now, especially watching the price of ammo climb every year! Save a PENNY per round, and that's literally millions of dollars saved by the time you're done.
    "I think there's room for some gradation between "Hey, quit that, please" and "AND I STILL HAVE HALF A CLIP LEFT!"" -- Will L.

    Mike #509

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Komitadjie View Post
    This kind of has to be taken with a grain of salt as well, though. Bear in mind that most of these are long-term contracts, running out into ten years or more as I recall from my reading. Figure if a single agent only fires 50 rounds a month in training (I wouldn't think you would want to use much less than that!), that's 600 rounds per man, per year. Figuring even just a thousand agents for a given agency, that's 600 THOUSAND rounds per year, expended in training only. Times a ten-year contract? That's 60 MILLION rounds fired in training alone. And you can bet that ICE and DHS have way north of a thousand agents under arms. According to Wikipedia, the border patrol alone has 20,200 agents. Now, not all of them are going to be armed, but even if half of them are, that's still well north of six MILLION rounds fired in training per year, for that one agency alone.

    The numbers are large in terms of rounds, but spread them out over the number of agents they have to equip and the number of years they're spread over? I'd say it makes perfect sense to lock in contracts now, especially watching the price of ammo climb every year! Save a PENNY per round, and that's literally millions of dollars saved by the time you're done.
    There is a point to be made there, but there are two things I want to add. I have not see ANY documentation about the contract extending to 10 years. I have seen 5, but never 10. The other thing is that I have seen documentation that the ENTIRE military expels only 5.5 million rounds of ammo a month.
    "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything."

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    Better than gold or platinum Komitadjie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HellBrentfrlthr View Post
    There is a point to be made there, but there are two things I want to add. I have not see ANY documentation about the contract extending to 10 years. I have seen 5, but never 10. The other thing is that I have seen documentation that the ENTIRE military expels only 5.5 million rounds of ammo a month.
    I was pulling the 10-year figure from something I'd read a while back, no idea if it's entirely current though.

    Bear in mind that 5.5 million rounds per month is 66 million rounds a year, and it really wouldn't surprise me that much if the average soldier did not have to re-qualify with his weapon anywhere near as often as a police officer, etc. I have NO real numbers on that, though. That number is probably highly variable as well, I'd guess.

    As to the NWS? I'd guess that's because not all of their reporting stations are in totally friendly territory. With only 46K rounds? That's training ammo for (using the 50 rounds/month criteria) 75 guys, for a year. Bet your average medium-sized city police force uses more than that.

    I'm not trying to say that there can't be some kind of ulterior motive, just looking at the numbers and seeing them as reasonably justifiable in terms of usage rate. The given agencies will also likely want to have a few months worth stashed in a warehouse somewhere too, just in case we run into something like a couple years back where the companies couldn't MAKE it fast enough to meet contracts.
    "I think there's room for some gradation between "Hey, quit that, please" and "AND I STILL HAVE HALF A CLIP LEFT!"" -- Will L.

    Mike #509

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Komitadjie View Post
    I was pulling the 10-year figure from something I'd read a while back, no idea if it's entirely current though.

    Bear in mind that 5.5 million rounds per month is 66 million rounds a year, and it really wouldn't surprise me that much if the average soldier did not have to re-qualify with his weapon anywhere near as often as a police officer, etc. I have NO real numbers on that, though. That number is probably highly variable as well, I'd guess.

    As to the NWS? I'd guess that's because not all of their reporting stations are in totally friendly territory. With only 46K rounds? That's training ammo for (using the 50 rounds/month criteria) 75 guys, for a year. Bet your average medium-sized city police force uses more than that.

    I'm not trying to say that there can't be some kind of ulterior motive, just looking at the numbers and seeing them as reasonably justifiable in terms of usage rate. The given agencies will also likely want to have a few months worth stashed in a warehouse somewhere too, just in case we run into something like a couple years back where the companies couldn't MAKE it fast enough to meet contracts.
    My understanding is, most police officers only qualify once a year, and most don't train beyond that. When I was in my permit carry class, my instructor told me that at least the cops around here rarely fire their weapon more than once a year, unless it's in the field.
    "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything."

  6. #6
    Better than gold or platinum Komitadjie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HellBrentfrlthr View Post
    My understanding is, most police officers only qualify once a year, and most don't train beyond that. When I was in my permit carry class, my instructor told me that at least the cops around here rarely fire their weapon more than once a year, unless it's in the field.
    Could be, probably varies a lot by individual department. I know our local guys shoot a fair bit, at least the ones I know. Both drills and shooting for fun.
    "I think there's room for some gradation between "Hey, quit that, please" and "AND I STILL HAVE HALF A CLIP LEFT!"" -- Will L.

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    rated "e" for evil norcal13's Avatar
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    obviously it's deathcamps.
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  8. #8
    am i the only one to spot the error?!?!
    6 hundred thousand rounds per dept. per month is 7.2 million rounds per year not 60 million.
    These numbers are ridiculous and as far as i'm concerned,and very good reason to be alarmed.

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    rated "e" for evil norcal13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaOsBlAkBlAdE View Post
    am i the only one to spot the error?!?!
    6 hundred thousand rounds per dept. per month is 7.2 million rounds per year not 60 million.
    These numbers are ridiculous and as far as i'm concerned,and very good reason to be alarmed.
    i buy ammo when it's cheap and stockpile it.
    why wouldn't govt. agencies do the same?
    or do you believe the media claims that anyone with a stockpile is about to start mass killings?
    alarmist thinking.
    death machine and man....in love.

  10. #10
    Better than gold or platinum Komitadjie's Avatar
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    Calm down, dude.

    Yeah, looks like I dropped a zero in there, should be 6 million rounds per thousand guys over a ten-year contract. But multiply that times just the border patrol's agent numbers, and that starts to look REALLY large. Consider the size of a 50-round box of .40cal ammo... now stack up one of those boxes per agent per month, still assuming half of the border patrol needs to qualify with a weapon... that's 10,100 50-round boxes per month on the stack... times a year, that's 121200 50-round boxes on your stack, per year. That'd fill SEVERAL semi-trailers, and ammount to well over 6 million rounds per year. Stretch that over even a five-year period, and you have 30 million rounds expended in training alone.

    In this case, I'd bet economy has a lot to do with it as well. If they can buy it cheap now and warehouse it, given that ammo is going up in price like crazy, it'll likely save a LOT on their budget over the next decade!
    Last edited by Komitadjie; 08-14-2012 at 04:16 PM.
    "I think there's room for some gradation between "Hey, quit that, please" and "AND I STILL HAVE HALF A CLIP LEFT!"" -- Will L.

    Mike #509

  11. #11
    I think this clears up the NWS part.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ab19_blog.html
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    Bone For Tuna Tony8179's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork477 View Post
    I think this clears up the NWS part.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ab19_blog.html
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  13. #13
    The numbers i was referring to as being ridiculous were the number of rounds being hoarded. This is a new trend, and if it were on pace with numbers in years past, then i'd think nothing of it. It, however, is not on par with years past and far exceeds past purchases and hints to "preperation" for something. If not, then so be it, and no big deal.

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    Bone For Tuna Tony8179's Avatar
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    They're preparing for the tornadocanes.

    Seriously though, what do you think they are preparing for?
    What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women." -- Conan


    And mine are long and sharp, my lord, as long and sharp as yours...
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  15. #15
    Better than gold or platinum Komitadjie's Avatar
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    Ah, that WOULD make more sense. Bet that clerk looks funny, that's a foot-in-mouth moment right up to the knee.

    I dunno, ordering a bucket-load-o-ammo makes perfect sense to me if you can get it at a good price, since it's certainly not going to get any LESS expensive, and they ain't gonna stop needing it.
    "I think there's room for some gradation between "Hey, quit that, please" and "AND I STILL HAVE HALF A CLIP LEFT!"" -- Will L.

    Mike #509

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