b400

**purpledc** · 06-17-2012, 10:58 AM

I have to admit I like the design but I dont care for aluminum for the handle material. Its not strength or weight that im worried about. What Im worried about is the tang pin cup area. Aluminum may have a high tensile strength to weight ratio but it dents pretty easy. Anyone who has dropped an aluminum handled knife knows just how bad they can get dinged by a single drop. With high speed intense flipping I worry that the area where the tang pins hit the handles will wear fast and cause the same issues as with a zamak handled knife. I worry about it even more so with the 400 series steel spacers.

One of the reasons the microtech aluminum knives didnt wear out bad is the handles remained light because they used aluminum for the spacers as well. This reduced the impact they made when striking the tang pins. But with Steel spacers putting more weight into the mix thats going to increase the impact the tang pins are going to have on the cups. The MT knives also had some pretty thick tang pins that spread that impact over a wider surface area. But when all is said and done im sure BRS has tested this material thoroughly before endorsing it. And Im sure they designed the tang pins large enough to spread that impact over greater a surface area to decrease wear. Its not BRS's designs i worry about. But rather Bears execution of that design. In other words if the tang cup areas do end up being a problem then I feel its going to be bears fault, not BRS.

I do hope with the use of aluminum we could convince bear to do runs in colors. Id love me a purple 400.

Originally Posted by Slaysur

The reason you never see titanium blades is because it is to expensive. If you look at high quality chef knifes they are either ceramic or titanium.
The following quote is straight from Missionknives.com they do alot of military applications and have some of the strongest knives in the industry.

"Corrosion Resistance: Titanium is corrosion proof in all naturally occurring environments. The MPK SEAL knife has been soaking in seawater for years without a hint of corrosion.

Weight: Titanium is 40% lighter than steel.

Heat and Cold Stability: Titanium is 800 degrees (in Fahrenheit) more thermally stable than steel. It will not break in subzero weather, whereas steel will shatter.

Wear/Abrasion Resistance: Titanium is a self-healing metal that forms an oxide ceramic skin over itself when scratched. This gives it the ability to resist being eroded by contact with outside materials such as dirt, sand, ice, mud, nylon webbing, rope, etc.

Superior Ductility: The Navy SEALs have been unable to break titanium MPK’s in over six years of service. This is due to the 12% elongation, coupled with toughness and flexibility.

Tough: Titanium is tough at both high and low temperatures. It resists breaking, cracking or chipping under impact or stress.

Flexibility: Titanium may be flexed or bowed repeatedly without undergoing rupture. It has ½ of the modules of steel; therefore, it will bend at least twice as far before breaking.

Non-Poisonous: Titanium is no-poisonous and biologically inert.

Strength-to-Weight Ratio: Titanium has superior strength-to-weight ratios when compared to either steel or ceramic. It is the alloy of choice for aircraft.

Non Magnetic: Titanium is magnetically inert, and is used by the Navy SEALs and Explosive Ordinance Disposal units (EOD) to defuse magnetically triggered mines. Knives must be sharpened with nonmagnetic sharpeners to remain inert."

So it is not a novelty it is a pricing issue.

Actually the reason you dont see Ti blades much is due to edge retention. Its very hard to get an edge to last on Ti. You can carbidize it but that only lasts so long. Its used in dive knives where corrosion resistance is preferred over edge retention.

Originally Posted by Silent Jay

ti runs through the bits very quickly because it is such a soft material that is jams them up and wears them out a lot faster

It is true that Ti is softer than most steel alloys. But its not really Ti's softness that wears tools and cutting bits faster. The two main reasons Ti burns through bits and cutting tools is its a poor thermal conductor. When you machine titanium the heat stays for the most part at the surface where you are cutting. This excess heat builds up and deforms cutting surfaces and dulls the cutting edge of tools. Another reason is its elasticity. That build of of heat mixed with its elasticity means that the piece you are trying to cut actually moves away from the cutting bit instead of actually cutting. The bit wants to rub instead of cut and this dulls the bit as well as building up even more heat. Also since Ti works very well as a alloy component when you use cutting tools that are not coated you run the risk of actually welding and galling at the point your trying to machine. Aluminum is even softer that Titanium. But its much easier to machine. That is due to it is a great thermal conductor and tools cut into it rather than push it away.

**Looseyfur** · 06-17-2012, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by purpledc

But when all is said and done im sure BRS has tested this material thoroughly before endorsing it. And Im sure they designed the tang pins large enough to spread that impact over greater a surface area to decrease wear. Its not BRS's designs i worry about. But rather Bears execution of that design. In other words if the tang cup areas do end up being a problem then I feel its going to be bears fault, not BRS.

We tested no materials nor made any material choices, we sold them a series of designs, offered up what we hoped to see envisioned to them and then handed off the project to be managed by the designs new owners. Some ppl have questioned why we would do that and I will tell you its pretty simple. They wanted a bali design for Bear Ops and we had conceptual work left over form our other project orientation that fit the bill. We expressed that at that time we didnt have the bandwidth to make entries into the 140 and below market share, but we felt it was an area that needed a competent flipper. They wanted to play ball, they were American, and they were passionate about BearOps and exploring a market that touched on the growing popularity of Flipping. It was a fast way to bring something to market, with low risk, based off work we had already done the lions share of.

When QC issues arose around the first B200's and trainers, we forwarded that feedback to them, they were receptive. I would gladly forward information to them about their subsequent models in whatever form it arrives because they are interested. Look at the older balisong models before bearops and see that they are an old dog thats trying out some new tricks, they could have played it safe but they struck out into new terrority. In a world where the occasional 500 dollar + custom comes apart as soon as you touch it bear could to worse...least it doesnt cut you when closed.

if you choose too or not too endorse or buy bearops is up to you... while we have a vested interest in them doing well with designs that came from our table, we also understand that with growth there is pain occasionally.

I look around my house today, and everyone is wondering where I am as I sit here and type this on fathers day.. Im sure theres some BBQ with my name on it somewhere around here but I made the happy mistake of visiting the JD to keep up on things and wanted to take the time to post this. For a few reasons, One being clarity, we have a business relationship with Bear and we are a pretty transparent company and you know that while I believe the designs we sold them are strong, I wont just go around saying everything they turn out is some next new greatest flipper until enduser feedback states otherwise... and TWO because I think what Bear did by running these designs is cool and good for flipping and I do hope they dial it in and produce some stuff thats easy on the wallet holds up and gets more ppl balisongs in their hands.

happy fathers day and keep em flipping dudes-

Loosey

**reaperisgrim** · 06-17-2012, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by laughingbuddha

Well, that's weird... because the add say's it weigh's 4.9oz which is about the same as the B200, which is heavier than a 4X... and IMO about perfect.

It looks like it uses the same blade as the B200 and I'm guessing that it probably uses the same spacers and pivot hardware as well.. which would mean that the Alu handles are probably slightly heavier than the G10.

,

I mean the weight is there but the way that it is proportioned (mostly into the blade) it make the handles feel really light and sticky in the pivot points. Also the aluminum handles feel like they will break faster than the cast handles on the old bear balis.

**DeadPuppy** · 06-17-2012, 01:49 PM

I for one can't imagine the aluminum handles being any less durable than the solid G10 handles (unless it's cheap poorly made aluminum). That said I'm still not biting on this knife until I see some reviews because of my B200. I really really want it to do well though; it has the potential, and it seems Bear has been stepping up their QC since my last purchase....

**purpledc** · 06-17-2012, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Looseyfur

We tested no materials nor made any material choices, we sold them a series of designs, offered up what we hoped to see envisioned to them and then handed off the project to be managed by the designs new owners. Some ppl have questioned why we would do that and I will tell you its pretty simple. They wanted a bali design for Bear Ops and we had conceptual work left over form our other project orientation that fit the bill. We expressed that at that time we didnt have the bandwidth to make entries into the 140 and below market share, but we felt it was an area that needed a competent flipper. They wanted to play ball, they were American, and they were passionate about BearOps and exploring a market that touched on the growing popularity of Flipping. It was a fast way to bring something to market, with low risk, based off work we had already done the lions share of.

When QC issues arose around the first B200's and trainers, we forwarded that feedback to them, they were receptive. I would gladly forward information to them about their subsequent models in whatever form it arrives because they are interested. Look at the older balisong models before bearops and see that they are an old dog thats trying out some new tricks, they could have played it safe but they struck out into new terrority. In a world where the occasional 500 dollar + custom comes apart as soon as you touch it bear could to worse...least it doesnt cut you when closed.

if you choose too or not too endorse or buy bearops is up to you... while we have a vested interest in them doing well with designs that came from our table, we also understand that with growth there is pain occasionally.

I look around my house today, and everyone is wondering where I am as I sit here and type this on fathers day.. Im sure theres some BBQ with my name on it somewhere around here but I made the happy mistake of visiting the JD to keep up on things and wanted to take the time to post this. For a few reasons, One being clarity, we have a business relationship with Bear and we are a pretty transparent company and you know that while I believe the designs we sold them are strong, I wont just go around saying everything they turn out is some next new greatest flipper until enduser feedback states otherwise... and TWO because I think what Bear did by running these designs is cool and good for flipping and I do hope they dial it in and produce some stuff thats easy on the wallet holds up and gets more ppl balisongs in their hands.

happy fathers day and keep em flipping dudes-

Loosey

Thank you for the clarification on that. I apologize for assuming. Im still glad though there was clarification on this subject. That way IF there is an issue with the choice of materials the blame wont land on BRS. The fact the you guys sort of lost a bit of control with how the design is implemented into final product gives me a better understanding now of how a collaboration isnt always the greatest thing in the world. Kinda reminds me of how many people (ill informed as it may be) criticized the Harkins Triton design due to MOD's execution of it. The Triton was and is probably one of if not thee best dual action OTF made past or present. But because MOD decided to rape the design and cut corners it took a lot of heat. I remember Jeff at times didnt even want to talk about it.

**sirhorsechoker** · 06-17-2012, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by DeadPuppy

I for one can't imagine the aluminum handles being any less durable than the solid G10 handles (unless it's cheap poorly made aluminum). That said I'm still not biting on this knife until I see some reviews because of my B200. I really really want it to do well though; it has the potential, and it seems Bear has been stepping up their QC since my last purchase....

^^This^^

I wish i would have waited and bought the newer b2oo with the better price! i had bought two of them old joints immediately...

**EOD13** · 06-17-2012, 04:40 PM

I would really like to see how this turns out... I think that if the spacers are heavy enough, that it might turn out nicely even though it's aluminum. It LOOKS very cool though

Hopefully it won't have the B300 tang though

**TheBombGamerTag** · 06-17-2012, 11:18 PM

This looks like it has the potential to be a great balisong. But I as others also have concerns. I will wait till reviews come out, and if they are good.. Heck I might buy one.

**SpydercoLover** · 06-18-2012, 01:33 AM

Can't you also anodize aluminum? that would be cool. you could get a bali for a decent price. and then have it look cool with an ano job as well

**Icceal555** · 06-18-2012, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by SpydercoLover

Can't you also anodize aluminum? that would be cool. you could get a bali for a decent price. and then have it look cool with an ano job as well

Anodizing aluminum is actually much easier than titanium, but the finish is much less durable and tends to chip off after any significant use. This is another reason that I think powder coating would be greatly beneficial to this knife.

**purpledc** · 06-18-2012, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Icceal555

Anodizing aluminum is actually much easier than titanium, but the finish is much less durable and tends to chip off after any significant use. This is another reason that I think powder coating would be greatly beneficial to this knife.

WTF? anodizing aluminum is shit tons more complicated than titanium. Ti is a reactive metal. You can color it any color in the visual spectrum other than red with either heat or electricity. And in reality its not even color at all but simply the surface area changes which colors of light are refracted back to your eye. Aluminum on the other hand is a porous metal that accepts dyes very well. And that is exactly what they use is a dye as well as and electrochemical solution. With Titanium you only need an electrolyte source. The reason Ti anodizing last longer has to do with the fact that your building up a tougher oxide layer of the titanium where as with the aluminum your simply dying the existing metal. Anodizing doesnt chip off either. Coatings do, which is vastly different.