Why are liner locks bad and frame locks good?

[SpyderocoMike]

Ive only been interested in knives for maybe a year or two. And once i saw a framelock online i said wow...that looks strong. But as i learn a bit more about all things sharpie i question that a bit.

Two reasons come to mind:
1: Titanium is supposed to be soft, at least softer than steel, and the only part that is potentially hardened is the locking face.
2: Most knives have a very very large cutout for the bend in the titanium, and it leaves what looks like a laughably small amount of material, and this is where all the stresses would be pushed too. No matter how well built the knive like a 0560 or other biggies, those cut outs look hella deep.

Maybe just because the titanium is softer doesnt mean its really any less tough or durable than steel?

What makes me question a Ti frame lock over a liner lock is actually the Sage 1 from Spyderco.

When i think of liner locks i think of shit because its always found on shit chinese knives. I have a CRKT ripple liner lock that i actually enjoy, but the liner is flimsy as all hell and it moved over in a couple days to the opposite end. HOWEVER, once i purchased the Sage 1, it looks to me like a kickass liner lock. Ive opened it countless times by now and it hasnt moved for shit. The thing feels durable and strong and i have full confidence in it.

Now ive seen a few youtube videos of people pounding on framelock knives and they dont fail (hinderers and others) So obviously some of my fears arent based in reality.

So whats the deal here. Can anyone explain to me in any detail why that big cutout shouldnt scare me so much? Or perhaps a well designed steel liner lock is in fact equally strong?

[Clydetz]

Can't really help you out, Mike. I've had slipjoints (no lock), linerlocks, lockbacks and framelocks. I've never had any of those type locks fail on me. I'd say the draw for linerlocks and framelocks is the one-hand operation. Until someone keeps track of all the locking failures and makes a chart/graph, that shows one type of lock fails more than another, I'll go on thinking one is as good as the other.

[LX_Emergency]

I'm not a 100% sure. But I think that Titanium is used because there's less chance of metalfatigue. The liner (or frame) lock is a moving part and over time metalfatigue would (in theory) set in and the lock would fail.

Titanium is indeed softer, but tougher because of this...more springy if you will. It also has excellent shape memory which mean that its more likely to return to it's original shape when bending it.

As for the whole, why framelocks and not linerlocks thing....its hard to say. I'm not a big fan of framelocks myself. I find them asymmetric and uglier because of it.

I've never had a knife fail on me either way whether its got a liner,frame,back lock or simply no lock. Anyone who has his knife fail through the lock while using it isn't using a knife with the proper safety precautions.....also if you DO need something that WON'T fold....get something that can't.

[SpyderocoMike]

I didnt know that about metal fatigue. I guess i know that if you bend a piece of metal you make it weaker at that spot, since if you keep doing it you can snap it. Just seems every frame lock folder is billed as hard use or users consider it as such. Maybe i should just consider that thinner piece of Ti the same as a piece of steel that thick then.

[Z'ha'dum]

This is what I was told by these guys when I posed the framelock v linerlock question ---> TDI
The said they have done extensive research on knives that have failed during fights and 100% of the time it was a linerlock.
Now, I think that's because most of the knives used by people likely to be in a street fight with a knife are the knives sold on gas station and liquor store counters. Those are usually linerlocks and are ALWAYS junk.
I'd say, the safety of a knife is determined by it's makers skill and experience. Stick to good quality knives and you should be fine with either.

[sirhorsechoker]

well isnt the framelock piece of metal larger? a liner lock is generally a thin strip of metal. whereas most framelocks seem to involve a huge chunk of metal bending into place. bigger sometimes means stronger.

the guy above me makes a good point too. crappiness is popular. liner locks are popular. the two things just happen to exist together, but that doesnt mean they cause one another.

[SpyderocoMike]

Yeah framelocks are huge. They are huge where they engage the tang. But like i said in my first post, most framelocks have serious cutouts allowing that bend...and the framelock is only as good as the smallest part of that cutout which looks to be as thin and sometimes much thinner than many liner locks! So i thought hey...if Ti is soft and there is a lock here (framelock) that is skinnier at its weakest point than a standard liner lock...just how strong is this stuff! That was my point.

Now i gotta go read the TDI link lol

All input is cool

[SpyderocoMike]

Ye ye good point. Im not sure how much that helps us to knowing about framelocks vs liners to know that most are liner locks that fail in street fights.




Sidenote. I FUCKING LOVE BUBBLES
I stumbled on trailer park boys on netflix a while ago and say every single episode. Supreme shit. Peep Show is another great one.

[OnceBitten]

Folders are NOT fighters. Only Balis come close to the definition.

[jujigatame]

There are great, average, and bad examples of every kind of locking mechanism out there. You talk about how the Sage linerlock has impressed with its quality. It's from a quality maker that does things right in my opinion. That's worth more to me than which particular lock a knife has. Everyone's got their own personal preference but is a mediocre knife with your favorite lock really better than a great knife with your third favorite lock?

The spinewhack/beatdown videos of knives on the web are only worth so much. Past a certain point it's just masturbation and not relevant to what you are probably going to be doing with your knife on a day to day basis.

[leatherman]

Folders are NOT fighters. Only Balis come close to the definition.

Dont make me stop this car! If I do we will go straight back to the JDBA!

[Jarlaxle]

Ye ye good point. Im not sure how much that helps us to knowing about framelocks vs liners to know that most are liner locks that fail in street fights.




Sidenote. I FUCKING LOVE BUBBLES
I stumbled on trailer park boys on netflix a while ago and say every single episode. Supreme shit. Peep Show is another great one.

When it comes to liner and frame locks i have seen great and poor examples of both, Just depends on the manufacturing/craftsmanship. I am more drawn to frame locks but then again i have a supreme example of one i.e. sebenza.

btw i wasnt even going to post really just wanted to say: Fuck yes to trailor park boys and peepshow! if you only have netflex these are must watch comedies

[Burchtree]

Liner locks aren't bad, but there are some bad liner locks out there. People get the impression that framelocks are "beefier" because they're thicker, but you still have to cut out a relief on them to allow you to operate it without pliers. So you've got a spot that's cut out that is .055 or less. Thinner than some liner locks. At least with a liner, if there is an excess of force put against the liners, they have the outside scale to push against to keep them from blowing out. Either way, a shitty framelock will fail, and a shitty liner lock will fail.

[Parker]

Folders are NOT fighters. Only Balis come close to the definition.

So how does the fight occur flipping it over a blanket in the basement? Two flippers get into an argument about which Pantera song to play while filming the next YouTube vid?


Juji - There is NO merit in spanking your knife against a board for a vid. I did smack an avacodo pit last night with the spine of my cold steel folder last night, trying to get it off the edge of an overly sharp knife someone used to cut and core the avacado. Then I used the point to hold the slippery pit while I wriggled the paring knife out of the pit.

What was the question again? Oh yeah, dimestore knives and framelocks. My Sebenzas completely cover the tang of the blade. Nowhere for it to go. So-called Early Lockup is a good way for the lock to fail when engaging. Whoops.

[englishmark]

This is my knife with a liner lock.

It has never failed when I have used it.

But I have never spine whacked it, or battoned it or been in a knife fight with it.

I did drop it once and it stayed open and locked.

If I ever do whack it or batton it or fight with it I'll let you know what happens.