Mr. Brock, your ok ?

[Ken Brock]

I'm a lot smaller (and better looking) than the dude in the video

but yeah, I do practice at that distance

[apdb90]

He says he doesn't blame the holster (which is a blackhawk Serpa), but I do.

This is proof positive that the index finger retention release is more likely to cause an ND because you have to use your trigger finger to release the gun.

This is a good example of why one should standardize on a single holster platform and weapon combination for carry and training. Bouncing back and forth between two totally different gun/holster combos will elad to accidents more than using one platform.

I'm not saying don't own multiple guns, but if you do, train on one specific platform.

THis guy was pretty candid about his mistakes, and I applaud him for that.

I was initially a big fan of the Serpa holsters, but I stress initially. They are at least involved (and blamed) in quite a few incidents like this. In addition, it is ridiculously easy for them to fail, and when I say fail, I'm talking the slightest bit of debris of any type behind that release and they lock up completely and are absolutely impossible to draw the gun from.

[siriusaudio]

I was initially a big fan of the Serpa holsters, but I stress initially. They are at least involved (and blamed) in quite a few incidents like this. In addition, it is ridiculously easy for them to fail, and when I say fail, I'm talking the slightest bit of debris of any type behind that release and they lock up completely and are absolutely impossible to draw the gun from.

Andy Stanford had a student that lost a piece of her femur because of a Serpa in a class he was running (I beleive it was overseas).

[Buffalohump]

I have heard that the Israelis never carry one in the chamber for this very reason. They train to draw, chamber round, acquire target and then fire to avoid ADs.

I do not know if this is true, like I said that's what I heard. I never carry my 1911 with a round chambered. That's the best safety mechanism I know of.

[apdb90]

I have carried a sidearm daily for the last 20+ years.....with a round in the chamber.

Best safety I know of.....keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot.

[GEEZER]

I have heard that the Israelis never carry one in the chamber for this very reason. They train to draw, chamber round, acquire target and then fire to avoid ADs.

I do not know if this is true, like I said that's what I heard. I never carry my 1911 with a round chambered. That's the best safety mechanism I know of.

Makes that revolver with the hammer on an empty chamber look more appealing..

[Ken Brock]

actually, a mechanical device or technique isn't needed. It's a software issue, not hardware

keep your snot picker off the bang switch until you are on target and ready to fire

[apdb90]

keep your snot picker off the bang switch until you are on target and ready to fire

Quite an eloquent way of putting it.

Moving on from Mr. Brock's words of wisdom to another topic....

A revolver on an empty chamber has nothing to do with safety unless you are carrying an "old school" single action. That "school of thought" was from the single action days where there wasn't a transfer bar that requires the trigger to physically be pulled, moving the bar into place which is struck by the hammer, and transfers that strike to the firing pin (or a system similar which blocks the forward travel of the hammer..such as in the case of a S&W with the firing pin on the hammer itself..unless the trigger is pulled). Without pulling the trigger, even a direct blow to the hammer will not ignite the primer/round.

With a modern double action revolver, the only thing you accomplish by an empty chamber under the hammer is giving yourself one less round in an already anemic round count in a fire fight.

Doing so with a modern semi auto accomplishes the same thing....one less round. Modern handguns, even without external safeties, have at least internal safeties...and in most cases several...that prevent a round in the chamber from igniting without a pull of the trigger. So as Mr. Brock puts it, keep your snot picker off the bang switch until you are on target and ready to fire and you'll be fine.

It's a training issue, not an equipment failure.

[payaso]

It's a training issue, not an equipment failure.

I believe it's a little of both with a sprinkle of Murpheys law on the side.
Shit happens, plain and simple.

It happens to seasoned officers and trained comp shooters and the like, just like this DEA agent below, and his ND inside a classroom full of children.
fast forward to 45 sec.

[apdb90]

No, that DEA Agent was a douche, plain and simple. That video has been around for a LONG time. "I'm the only one I know who is professional enough....." He was too busy trying to tell everyone how his was bigger than theirs, and while doing so, stepped on it with both feet in golf shoes. There's NO reason that gun should have ever been out of the holster in the first place. Again, a training (or perhaps stupidity) issue.

[kayakjax]

actually, a mechanical device or technique isn't needed. It's a software issue, not hardware

keep your snot picker off the bang switch until you are on target and ready to fire

A quote for the ages!

When I carry a 1911, I usually carry it cocked and locked. I've had people who know very little about guns try to scold me for carrying it in such an unsafe manner.

I have to (try to) explain that THREE things have to happen to make it go "bang":

1. The slide safety has to be disengaged.
2. The grip safety has to be squeezed.
3. The trigger has to be pulled.

The "safe" DA revolvers they preferred only need one step, pull the trigger. It's admittedly a long pull, but still, one action will fire it.

I'm not a LEO, and I don't practice speed shooting. I try to make a smooth motion a muscle memory. I've been shooting for over 40 years and have never accidentally fired a gun.

Of course, I try to make it a point to not have my snot picker on the bang switch until I am on target and ready to fire.

[Ken Brock]

I believe it's a little of both with a sprinkle of Murpheys law on the side.
Shit happens, plain and simple.

It happens to seasoned officers and trained comp shooters and the like, just like this DEA agent below, and his ND inside a classroom full of children.
fast forward to 45 sec.

that fuckstick was not well trained or he would never have had firearms and ammunition in a teaching environment

not only that, he wouldn't allow the gun to point at anything he's not willing to destroy

on top of that, this fucker tried to sue the DEA for shooting himself

[gzb]

Whoops! Repost...

[RangerNick]

ALWAYS keep your bugger hook off the bang switch till READY to fire, also get a pistol with a mechanical safety like a 1911.

[stdlrf11]

He was using a 1911.

The mechanical safety worked just fine.

He didn't work so well.