Kimber vs. Springfield 1911s?

[Hollowpoint]

Just wanted to get some of your guys imput- I know I started a thread about 1911s last night, but wanted to get some more specific imput. I can get a Kimber Custom II for about $150 more than a Springer Loaded 1911. My question is this; I've read/heard nothing but horror stories about Kimber. Everything about the Custom II LOOKED good, and it seemed like the better gun, but looks are deceiving, I suppose. So does anyone have imput about Kimber 1911s as of late? From what I've heard, they went totally down hill after putting the Swartz safety on their guns. Everyone I have talked to says that if its a carry gun, don't get a Kimber. Not only is that IN PERSON at gunshop, from the very same people trying to sell me the Kimber, but also all over 1911forum, snipershide, and ar15.com.

So what exactly makes Kimber pistols so unreliable and bad as of late?

[bigbob68]

Both are fine examples of a 1911. Either one is a great choice. I own the Kimber Stainless Custom II and like it alot.

[Parker]

What makes the Springfield seem inferior to the Kimber in your view?

Imagine that Schwartz safety disassembling itself spontaneously while your pistol is cycling a new round into the chamber, locking the gun solid with a live round in it.

Now picture how much fun that can be figuring out how to transport it safely to a proper gunsmith so you can have it taken apart and unloaded.

That's what makes a Kimber a poor choice. I know several people who have witnessed this happen on multiple occassions. If your FFL is telling you not to buy it and he sells them, why would you require any further opinion? He's likely had to deal with the attendant bullshit accompanying such a problem a few times.

Cool finishes, cool advertising, etc does not mean it's a good pistol.

The further one strays from the original design, the closer one gets to non-functioning garbage.

Ambidextrous safeties, light rails, and cool grips do not make a defensive pistol. 100% reliability makes a defensive pistol. Anything like a disintegrating internal safety mech is antethical to this notion :devilzeek

As an aside, I wonder, really, how reliable we'd see Glocks or Sigs being if everyone and their mother were flooding the market with useless, poorly engineered and spec'd "drop-in" replacments for everything from triggers, sears and slide-stops to barrels, magazines and new guide rods that were not matched to the design of the gun.

I've got a friend who is a 1911 nut. He buys them, takes them apart and guts them, rebuilds them as serious defensive weapons. It's somewhere between hobby and religion for him.

He owns a box-stock 1918-built 1911 and using a new magazine on the market, again built to original JMB specs from the factory, it feeds hollowpoints with 100% reliability. No throating, no polishing, no porting. Just good engineering and build from the get-go.

Find a gun like this - built RIGHT from the start, and leave the fancy geegaws to the folks who are impressed with them. You may find your Springfield loaded to be this pistol. You may not. You may want to start with a Springer GI or WWII, or a Colt 1911A1 instead, work your way from there.

[Derespina Knives]

You can get a Colt for around the same price, or a used one for less. Does your local range have any 1911s you could test fire?

My range is also a shop, although more expensive as a shop, they are cheaper as a range. Go figure.

They had a Colt and a Para that I was looking at and offered to let me fire them on the range, maybe your would do the same?

I didn't buy either of them but... still looking.

Good luck! 1911 people are painfully serious about their gun. So you will get tons of opinions.

I've heard what Parker has stated before and from other Kimber owners that they are flawless. It's pretty hit or miss in the end. Same with Springfields, Para and Smith. But never Colt, not yet anyway.

I've heard bad shit about Taurus 1911s too then from 2 other 1911 officionado's I hear they are absolutely worth every penny. That and one even said his fired better and straighter than his Kimber or Colt...

I guess no one really knows until you've onwed them all and even then, you may have just bought the one good one or one bad one...

Every 1911 owner is a die hard "1911 man"

[Hollowpoint]

Good points! I'm definitely going with the Springer, its just that I wanted some input on the exact reason why. I don't see the Springer inferior; I will admit, I liked the finish on the Kimber, and the Slant-Pro night sights on the Kimber a little better.

But, I'm still gonna go with a Springer Loaded, for the fact that it has everything I want on a 1911 in the first place. Beavertail Grip Safety, Night Sights, Stainless barrel, and the magwell bevel. I did the math, and even getting a GI, and doing that stuff to it, would cost more than if I just got the Loaded Springer. That'll be the route I go.

[Per-Sev]

I speak from experience on the Kimber I had a Pro Carry and so did a friend of mine, he still has his and I traded mine in on a Sig. The Kimber gives you a lot of extras for the money but mine was not reliable and my friend ended up taking his to a custom gun smith to get his to function properly. Now before I get a bunch of hate mail from all the Kimber fans, just because we had a few problems with ours does not mean all of them are bad guns. I think they just needed a little more fine tuning at the factory. The problem with my friends was the part that locks the clip in was machined wrong and his clip was to low to feed properly. Mine was a feed and ejection problem I had changed my mind after carrying it for a few days so when I traded it in I told them about the problem so they could send it back to Kimber and get it fixed. I know the salesman and he confirmed that they did get it fixed before they sold it to someone. I have also owned a Colt series 70 gold cup national match and it was not much better out of the box, but I was making that into a competition gun so I was changing a lot of part anyways. I love the 1911 style guns but I would buy a plain one a do it up custom or by one already done up like a Les Baer custom it will cost you but it will be perfect.

[longbow]

I owned the first iteration of the Kimber. Nice gun but heavy. I have owned a couple of Para's, nice guns but didn't like the wt. or the double mag. I have owned a couple of Colts too. Commander, Govt., and a CCO. The CCO is the one I have kept for all these years. Liked it so much I didn't feel the need to ever get another auto s/a. Matter of fact never had an inclination to get another auot period. It is that good and I shit you not. Thousands of rounds through it and never ever one hiccup, not one. Oh yea have owned a couple of Belgium Brownings too, 9mm and .40. Well the 9 was Belgium and the .40 was I can't remember where it was made. Firestar .40 too. Hands down the Colt CCO beats them all.

Two tone frame, officers frame too in titanium that is forged, s.s. Commander slide with the flat top. The BEST hood to slide fit I have ever felt and that goes for the link to frame fit too. Absolutely no movement when pressed down. The bushing is a great fit too. No play there when depressing the slide a fraction. You know the barrel doesn't move up and down. But the rail fit is a military fit so there is some slop there. Hence I assume the reliability factor along with correctly mated parts. I know for a fact that it works muddied up too. Anyways never owned a Springfield but they used to make a full size in a light wt. frame, don't know if they still do or not. That would be the way I would go if it were me. keepem sharp

[fastlt1nos]

I would go for the Springfield, I have owned 5 of there 1911's still currently own 2. I also have had 2 Kimbers and have a Les Baer. I have never shot a Springfield I didn't love. I would even choose them over my Les bear. The Kimber didn't really impress me, I couldn't hit anything with it. They have excellent CS as well. But I may be a little biased (check location) :madaddy:

[IWantThatKnife]

I just bought a Kimber Custom Carry 1st Generation for $500. Haven't shot it yet; but it is without the Schwartz Safety - one less issue to worry about. One of my favorite full sized 1911s is my Sig GSR (Granite State Rail) in stainless. An external extractor - hush Parker - its a great, straight shooter.

I also have a Colt Combat Elite, a very well built Series 80 gun with a flat top and adjustable rear sight. I found it like new, at a gun show for $775 with box, magazine, and manual. Heck, even the Taurus PT1911 is a good shooting gun; a really great value and basic 1911 is a Rock Island - made in the Phillipines; basic 1911A1. Mine is nickle plated, but a great basic shooter.

The best advice I can give you is narrow your search down to 3-4 guns, shoot them all and then decide which one suits you and feels best for you...

http://iwantthatknife.com/Gallery/albums/rimfire-guns/sig_revolution_gsr.jpg
http://iwantthatknife.com/Gallery/albums/EBR/combat_elite_3.jpg
http://iwantthatknife.com/Gallery/albums/EBR/kimber_classic_custom.jpg
http://iwantthatknife.com/Gallery/albums/military_guns/Taurus_1911_JD.jpg
http://iwantthatknife.com/Gallery/albums/EBR/DSC_0006.jpg

a cacophony of 1911s - missing a few....

http://iwantthatknife.com/Gallery/albums/EBR/1911_pistols.jpg

all these 1911s are under $900...

[Parker]

I speak from experience on the Kimber I had a Pro Carry and so did a friend of mine, he still has his and I traded mine in on a Sig. The Kimber gives you a lot of extras for the money but mine was not reliable and my friend ended up taking his to a custom gun smith to get his to function properly. Now before I get a bunch of hate mail from all the Kimber fans, just because we had a few problems with ours does not mean all of them are bad guns. I think they just needed a little more fine tuning at the factory. The problem with my friends was the part that locks the clip in was machined wrong and his clip was to low to feed properly. Mine was a feed and ejection problem I had changed my mind after carrying it for a few days so when I traded it in I told them about the problem so they could send it back to Kimber and get it fixed. I know the salesman and he confirmed that they did get it fixed before they sold it to someone. I have also owned a Colt series 70 gold cup national match and it was not much better out of the box, but I was making that into a competition gun so I was changing a lot of part anyways. I love the 1911 style guns but I would buy a plain one a do it up custom or by one already done up like a Les Baer custom it will cost you but it will be perfect.

Per-Sev, the Gold Cup was designed to work with powder-puff target loads and unfortunately this was never really translated on the retail end. Not that this is wrong, but the GC's were I think sold short by the Colt marketing and client service failure.

The issue 1911's have with feeding is in the engineering and machining. If the clip is improperly engaging, unfortunately that's pisspoor build and QC. I'm glad it got sorted, and since I like having you around, i'm glad you're not trusting that thing any longer.

Tim, I keep telling you that Sig thing of yours may SAY 1911 on it, but with an external extractor, full-length guide rod and light rail on the dust cover, it's just another wannabe ;)

I am impressed that you now know to excuse the external extractor without my even seeing your post :bang:

Soon you will quit calling it a 1911 and start calling it a Sig .45acp and we'll be just dandy ;)

[Kura]

I have two Colt 1911's built in 1913 and both work flawlessly...why go anywhere else?

[IWantThatKnife]

Tim, I keep telling you that Sig thing of yours may SAY 1911 on it, but with an external extractor, full-length guide rod and light rail on the dust cover, it's just another wannabe

I am impressed that you now know to excuse the external extractor without my even seeing your post


P - I'm not making any excuses for the external extractor at all...consider Sig borrowed it from the ultimate refinement of the 1911 model - the Browning High Power...

http://iwantthatknife.com/Gallery/albums/military_guns/Picture_or_Video_032.jpg

[Sheldon_Wickersham]

Then again, you could just buy a Browning Hi-Power...funky adjustable rear sight optional. :devil1:

[rbmcmjr]

P - I'm not making any excuses for the external extractor at all...consider Sig borrowed it from the ultimate refinement of the 1911 model - the Browning High Power...

<nit_picking>

The original P-35/GP/Hi-Power had an internal extractor. It didn't move to an external version until the early 60s.

</n_p>

Either version seems to work just fine, however.

[IWantThatKnife]

<nit_picking>

The original P-35/GP/Hi-Power had an internal extractor. It didn't move to an external version until the early 60s.

</n_p>

Either version seems to work just fine, however.

I am building two Inglis Hi-Powers...

[motorhed66]

I have one 1911.Springfield " Professional"..FBI HRT side arm.Its a custom piece.Go to 10-8 forums .Great resource .