View Full Version : Scott Cook *OFFICIAL* thread (mega merge)
Tinysd
08-13-2005, 06:48 AM
I just received this boot knife. This should compliment the Lochsa that will be ready in October 2006. It is the knife that is pictured on Scott's site.
Thanks to Hermes for the score!
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q194/Tinysd/Tinysd2/DSC_0007-19.jpg
SuperD
08-13-2005, 09:34 AM
Nice. I have a dagger and Lochsa on order from Cook too. Not sure when they will be ready.
Mike Stewart
08-13-2005, 10:13 AM
Very Very Clean Lines,
I like that Piece of Snakewood.
Great Find.
Mike.........................:mike:
MicroFanatic
09-03-2005, 07:50 PM
For those that don't know, this knife has been around for several years now and is the only folder that Scott Cook produces. This folder, the Lochsa, is the only folder on the market that has a full titanium one-piece handle construction. It is truly a piece of perfection! His current waiting list is 1 1/2 years...if you have the patience, it is well worth it! I've been trying to get this folder for several years now and the day finally came.
I tried to show all aspects of this knife as well as the small attention to detail that Scott is known for. Enjoy the pics -
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10015/ClosedF.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10015/ClosedB.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10015/ClosedHandleOpening.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10015/ClosedHandleSpine.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10015/BladeF.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10015/OpenF.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10015/OpenHandleOpening.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10015/PivotPin.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10015/PivotPin-.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10015/StudThumbgrooves.jpg
Mr.LaBella
09-03-2005, 07:53 PM
sweet pics!!!
I think I am going to buy one! :bow:
SuperD
09-03-2005, 08:05 PM
Nice. I have a Lochsa on order as well as a dagger.
Guillermo
09-03-2005, 08:53 PM
I am selling most of my folders but that blade is sweet. I might have to get one.
pease
09-03-2005, 08:59 PM
five months and I'll have mine. great pics
Tinysd
09-04-2005, 12:13 AM
Mine will be ready in October........................................... .....................2006.:elsaddo:
Thanks for the pics!
Dylan
09-04-2005, 12:31 AM
I have one, best knife I own hands down.
Spufnik
09-04-2005, 10:32 AM
Those are some great pics MF, I never realized that the handle was one piece, that is sweet !!!!
I have one, best knife I own hands down.
Even without extra holes?
robertmegar
09-06-2005, 11:27 PM
I'll take that cook's knife over a Sebenza any day.
bart-1
09-07-2005, 09:20 AM
Very nice knife!!!
beherethen
09-07-2005, 12:23 PM
Your pics are great.
I'm on the waiting list too, but 2 weeks ago I was able to score a gently used one on another forum for $479 shipped. It's about the same weight as the Sebenza but feels lighter. The BM 750 feels like a brick next to it. This is just a great knife.
Joe Talmadge
09-07-2005, 05:29 PM
Agree that this knife is a tour de force. Think about the problems Cook went through in developing a one-piece framelock. In a regular slab framelock, the lock is bent by over-extending the lock part before the two slabs are screwed together. How did Cook do it with just 1/8" between the two slabs, and no way to separate them? Ditto the ball dentent, which is usually press-fit into the locking leaf with the slabs separated -- with just a 1/8" slot to work in, how did Scott do it?
Scott is pretty upfront in answering these types of questions and discussing the challenges he faced. Make you appreciate this knife even more -- it's a functional work of art and engineering puzzle all in one :) There's a reason he was the first and is still the only one to do an integral framelock: he's the only one good enough to do it, at the moment.
Mr.LaBella
09-07-2005, 05:33 PM
* going to add myself to a list *
also, if someone sees one gently used lemme know!
I can do a deal soon!
beherethen
09-07-2005, 07:15 PM
Scott Cook is going to have a booth at the Chicago Show and may have a few for sale. If your going to go I'd advise getting a VIP ticket. It's $10 more but you get to enter the show an hour early.
MicroFanatic
09-07-2005, 08:03 PM
Thanks for the comments. The knife truly is a wonder! Went crazy over it the very first time holding it in hand a 3 years back at a knife show...had no $$$ as I had at the time spent it all on a Brend Mini HALO.
You're right about Scott having a few at every show. Make sure you meet him at the door and buy it on the spot. Two years ago I waited several hours by his table at the Eugene Show (the very first day it opened to members only) so that I could be the first to secure one. When he finally made it to his table he explained to me that he sold the only 3 he had brought to the show at the extrance door (all sold to 1 guy). Man, I was BUMMED! They rarely come available on the net, so the shows are the best place to get them...unless you have the patience to wait it out and get on his list.
beherethen
09-07-2005, 10:17 PM
I've only seen a few show up on the net and they were more than the new sales price-like $550 to $600. I think some guys just buy whatever they can at a show and then just flip them for a 15% profit.
ActiveMatx
09-25-2005, 06:14 AM
I got a Lochsa from Cook a year ago. It is to this day, my favorite frame lock I own.
Tinysd
09-25-2005, 06:19 AM
I got a Lochsa from Cook a year ago. It is to this day, my favorite frame lock I own.
Pics?
Mr.LaBella
09-25-2005, 07:34 AM
Pics?
+1 !
very cool, knife BTW!
Harley Rider
09-25-2005, 08:48 AM
Very nice!
Allen:gogdog:
Bobert
09-25-2005, 10:47 AM
Very nice indeed!
bart-1
09-25-2005, 10:48 AM
Love the knife!! The handle wood is awesome!!
jivedaddy
09-25-2005, 04:44 PM
Great knife!!! :ronwow:
ActiveMatx
09-25-2005, 08:46 PM
Pics?
Im not the best with pictures so bare with me...
I love this folder. It is awesome! It has the best sound when locking up. Its like a "CLANG". This folder has ZERO blade play in any direction. And when I say Zero, I mean that it feels so tight, that even if I try my hardest to wiggle the blade around with my hands it wont budge at all.
The frame is one piece of titanium, milled from a solid block. I dont know how Scott Cook does it. One piece!
Blade is sharpest knive that I have (probably because its the only one that has never cut anything, and I spent an hour stropping it).
I prefer Tip Down Knives, and I must have been drunk when I ordered it Tip Up. I really dont mind though, because the pocket clip is very low riding in the pocket. (Like it matters because this knife im never going to carry).
I orginally bought this knife to be my EDC, but once it showed up, I just coudnt use it.... espcially after waiting 13 months for it.
So that is why im going to use my Strider SMF as my EDC. I really want a knife I can abuse!
Heres the pictures I just took.http://www.matx.net/data/lochsa/1.JPG
http://www.matx.net/data/lochsa/2.JPGhttp://www.matx.net/data/lochsa/3.JPGhttp://www.matx.net/data/lochsa/4.JPGhttp://www.matx.net/data/lochsa/5.JPG
http://www.matx.net/data/lochsa/6.JPG
Tinysd
09-25-2005, 08:49 PM
Awesome!! Thanks for posting the pics!!
Spufnik
09-25-2005, 08:56 PM
That is a sweet knife. I really want to get one of them. It is going to be a Looong wait for it though. Isn't that one a tip down carry? Maybe you ment you wanted a tip up instead? :idunno: Go figure. Really nice knife tho. I love the almost Sebbie look with the one piece frame.
ActiveMatx
09-25-2005, 09:03 PM
That is a sweet knife. I really want to get one of them. It is going to be a Looong wait for it though. Isn't that one a tip down carry? Maybe you ment you wanted a tip up instead? :idunno: Go figure. Really nice knife tho. I love the almost Sebbie look with the one piece frame.
Your right there Spufnik,
I swear Im probably dis-lex-ick... spelling? I always get the whole Tip up, tip down thing backwards..
but the way that the knife is, is NOT the way I prefer it to be... But it doesnt really matter. More like a 60% 40% sorta thing.
Spufnik
09-27-2005, 08:16 PM
Poking around I found these. Picture a blued damascus on that one handle. The more I look, the more I think I need one.
Mr.LaBella
09-27-2005, 10:11 PM
I agree!
get me one, too!
spufnik...
MicroFanatic
09-27-2005, 10:18 PM
Love the striped damascus! Goes well with the handle! The Locsha is an incredible knife and I say USE it and CARRY it! Heck, if collectors are using their custom Onions as EDC's then this is nothing ;) . Although, having one put away and another to use is the best bet! :)
ActiveMatx
09-28-2005, 12:24 AM
Love the striped damascus! Goes well with the handle! The Locsha is an incredible knife and I say USE it and CARRY it! Heck, if collectors are using their custom Onions as EDC's then this is nothing ;) . Although, having one put away and another to use is the best bet! :)
Im 22 years old. I work part time. Im still in college! SO in the meantime, I'll limit my really nice knives for looking at only....
besides, I already have too many EDC's!
Mr.LaBella
09-28-2005, 06:02 AM
that knife MUST be carried sell it to me and Ill report back on it!!
:guitar:
BoerBoelGuy
09-28-2005, 08:07 AM
That is just breath taking sir. Awesome design on his part and score on yours!
Loandr.
jivedaddy
02-15-2006, 05:51 PM
Decided to e-mail Scott Cook about the Lochsa I ordered a couple of years ago and just got a reply-I'm up in the spring!!! Didn't get a solid date, but the journey is nearing the end!!!!:roxxor: :wolfgang: :punish: :firedevil
Raoul
02-15-2006, 06:28 PM
I don't know why you posted that!!!:FU:
Especially since you must have known that there are several Devils over here who still have to wait.......,well...,eh...LONG!!!
You'd better not post pictures when it's ready and in your greasy,sweaty paws!!!
I will also add that you suck big-time!!!:fonz:
Mr.LaBella
02-15-2006, 06:41 PM
you know they do come up for sale here and there, right Raoul?:poke:
CONGRATS!! I too have a Lochsa on order, but I am at the beginning of my 2 year wait!! I DO want to see pix of your Lochsa when it arrives!!
Matches
02-15-2006, 07:48 PM
Nice looking stuff on the website, obviously worth the wait...whats a ball park price for his stuff?
SuperD
02-15-2006, 07:59 PM
Nice looking stuff on the website, obviously worth the wait...whats a ball park price for his stuff?
Starting price is like $500 if I recall. (I have one on order too)
Stabber
02-15-2006, 08:00 PM
If your tired of waiting I'll take overhttp://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif
Matches
02-15-2006, 08:01 PM
Thanks SuperD, not as bad as I would have figured.
Mine has dual thumb studs and S90V. Scott says he does free sharpening. $490, and then $75 for dual thumb studs, and extra for the S90V. I would wait 5 years for this knife!
bart-1
02-15-2006, 10:29 PM
I miss the one I had, such is life, at least I am beautiful!
Congrats and good luck to all specially The danish boy!!
Raoul
02-16-2006, 02:08 AM
you know they do come up for sale here and there, right Raoul?:poke:
Sjah.....,do I ever!!!
A couple of weeks ago there was one for sale on another forum and due to a twist of fate I was the first one around!
I posted "I'll take it" so fast that smoke was coming from my keyboard!!!
It was a very very beautifull one too!!!!
The guy mailed me back and said he didn't ship to the Netherlands and sold it to someone else!
I was mad as hell!!!!
But I'm still on the prowl!!
Raoul: THAT so sucks!! I felt so bad for you about loosing out on that Lochsa!! The 2 year wait gives me time to save up for my Lochsa!! I am so excited about being able to get one too!! I am deleriously happy that I CAN get dual thumb studs, as that is EXTREMELY important to me!!
ActiveMatx
02-17-2006, 02:10 AM
I orginally bought my Lochsa to be my EDC. However, once it came, I just couldn't use it.... its too nice.
I also have like waaaay too many $500 knives that I carry, so I said I'll let this one be a safe queen.
Its sooo sharp. Its the knife that I compare all my other knives to, when I try to sharpen them.
Just new in the door, small hunter "Owyhee" with African Blackwood handle. I put my Lochsa next to it for size comparison. Nice small blade from Cook.
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/1/8/8/9/dscn0253_edited_975574.jpg
Billy Stewart
05-26-2008, 09:48 PM
Love african blackwood and the pins really set it off!! Really nice congrats!:wes:
knifepuppet
05-26-2008, 10:05 PM
Wow, this pair are perfect.
That looks like it would make a nice pocket fb. Congrats!! That is a real beauty!
John T Wylie Jr.
05-27-2008, 11:56 PM
I always loved that lil fixed blade. Nice score.
Basko
06-01-2008, 09:34 PM
That's a nice little knife. I have the large model and I love it.
Mr.LaBella
09-11-2008, 06:17 AM
I will let the pictures do (most of) the talking...
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/new_stuff12.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/new_stuff13.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/new_stuff14.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/new_stuff15.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/new_stuff16.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/new_stuff17.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/new_stuff18.jpg
sorry for my usual blurriness :ropeman:
Stabber
09-11-2008, 07:35 AM
Nice Score Sir!!
I need one of those!!:ross:
Very cool, Scott makes a great knife.:ernie:
Gordon
Very nice Ron
I have the small one and Scott's attention to details, fit and finish are tops IMO.
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/1/8/8/9/dscn0339_edited.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/1/8/8/9/dscn0253_edited_975574.jpg
Worker
09-12-2008, 06:54 PM
Looks sharp!!
That is a beautiful kniife. CONGRATS!
motoon
09-17-2008, 03:08 AM
Great score, looks nice
Nathan S
09-17-2008, 03:14 AM
Damn, those are nice. I've always wanted one.
Boogerball
09-17-2008, 06:17 AM
specs? plzkthx
HC Mullica
09-17-2008, 09:52 AM
I'm liking the pin positioning..great score! :semper:
specs? plzkthx
Sure I don't mind doing research for ya Boogerball:
Lg. Owyhee Hunter
Price:
Full Grip Handle --- $345
Bolster w/ full grip - $435
*Handle material will effect price
Specifications:
Overall Length ------- 8.5"
Blade Length -------- 3.625"
Blade thickness ------- .125"
Sheath included
Sm. Owyhee Hunter
Price:
Full Grip Handle --- $325
Bolster w/ full grip - $415
*Handle material will effect price
Specifications:
Overall Length ----- 7.25 "
Blade Length ------- 3.0"
Blade thickness ----- .125"
Sheath included
:thefinger
http://www.scottcookknives.com/specs.htm
mtnfolk mike
09-17-2008, 01:23 PM
those are great looking knives...:devilzeek i have wanted one for a while...
I should mention that Scott is accepting orders for his fixed blades. He is still backlogged like crazy but takes Owyhee orders; don't even think about the Lochsa because his website still says no more Lochsa orders.
Mr.LaBella
09-17-2008, 06:49 PM
I think the sheath is a little bit TOO MUCH, but I love the knife. Thanks all for the kind words, and RNST for being Boogerball's librarian
I think the sheath is a little bit TOO MUCH, but I love the knife. Thanks all for the kind words, and RNST for being Boogerball's librarian
Not a problem at all. With the power of LaBella's internet we have all sorts of power at our finger tips.
:schmoove:
Clint
09-17-2008, 09:33 PM
NICE KNIFE! :cadi:
The large is a perfect working size (IMHO)
The small SWEET as well!
http://www.molalla.net/~cboyer/cookbonehandle
This has been posted before but always fits in a Cook knife thread.
http://www.molalla.net/~cboyer/customknife
knifepuppet
09-19-2008, 01:12 PM
The pics are just porn~~~Great score boss.:devilscribbled:
I will let the pictures do (most of) the talking...
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/new_stuff18.jpg
sorry for my usual blurriness :ropeman:
Ron
What is the handle wood called? Desert Ironwood? me likey alot!
NICE KNIFE! :cadi:
The large is a perfect working size (IMHO)
The small SWEET as well!
http://www.molalla.net/~cboyer/cookbonehandle
Clint is this a stag horn handle?
I think I am gonna be callin Mr Cook one day.....
Mr.LaBella
09-19-2008, 06:18 PM
Yessir, I bought it from Clint :D
Clint
09-19-2008, 09:57 PM
Ron
Clint is this a stag horn handle?
.....
It is Giraffe bone, SWEET HUH?!
It is Giraffe bone, SWEET HUH?!
freakin amazin my friend. Nice score!
Mr.LaBella
11-20-2008, 05:03 PM
freakin amazin my friend. Nice score!
Better now! Back from Ol' Shep- WEST TEXAS SHEATH MAKER Bluff Creek Outfitters......
Soup- drumroll please...
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/scott_cook_knives1.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/scott_cook_knives2.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/scott_cook_knives3.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/scott_cook_knives4.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/scott_cook_knives5.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/scott_cook_knives6.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/scott_cook_knives7.jpg
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/scott_cook_knives8.jpg
Old sheath= new sheath AND my Lochsa!!!!!
Jorge Banner
11-20-2008, 05:18 PM
Those are really nice. Good for you.
Peter Lezard
11-20-2008, 07:15 PM
Sweeeeeeeet! :bow: What kind of leather did he use for the folder sheath?
Mr.LaBella
11-20-2008, 07:18 PM
Sweeeeeeeet! :bow: What kind of leather did he use for the folder sheath?
The folder sheath is just something I had laying around, a Markethopper sheath :fixed: by Dwayne Puckett aka Leatherman
:D
Basko
11-22-2008, 12:35 AM
About time you bought something besides a microtech.
Nice Lochsa. They are a very well made knife.
Mr.LaBella
11-22-2008, 06:38 AM
About time you bought something besides a microtech.
Nice Lochsa. They are a very well made knife.
Why thank you, my friend you are indeed correct. I am LOVING these knives!
Thanks Clint and RNST ( and Basko for the push) :gotroasted:
Thanks Ol Shep for the EDC sheath as well...
Damn, thanks everyone!:gzb: :gzb:
Hope you enjoy the Lochsa Ron. Truly a great folder and its design is what I compare with all others.
Don't you love that sound when it locks up?
:devilzeek
Hey guys thank for sharing.:popcorn:Mr.Labella thats an awesome shealth and Clint that giraffe with the bolster is off the hook.RNST what type of wood is on that fine owyee??The thing that is great on the owyhee is the contour of the handle.Here's my crappy photo indoor.Large snakewood.
Clint
11-22-2008, 01:55 PM
Clint that giraffe with the bolster is off the hook.
Thanks!
I bought the ironwood first but really wanted a bolstered Owyhee but couldn't find one anywhere. When Scott started taking orders I jumped on it! That's when I let the large go to fund the small.
I seriously considered snake wood instead of the bone, that stuff is SWEET!
Semper708
11-22-2008, 02:51 PM
:semper: Very Nice :semper:
Mr.LaBella
11-23-2008, 09:14 AM
Hope you enjoy the Lochsa Ron. Truly a great folder and its design is what I compare with all others.
Don't you love that sound when it locks up?
:devilzeek
The sound is awesome!
bigbob68
08-26-2009, 06:08 PM
Decided to e-mail Scott Cook about the Lochsa I ordered a couple of years ago and just got a reply-I'm up in the spring!!! Didn't get a solid date, but the journey is nearing the end!!!!:roxxor: :wolfgang: :punish: :firedevil
Never got any pics. Did you ever get your knife? I WANT PICS! :devil1:
Never got any pics. Did you ever get your knife? I WANT PICS! :devil1:
ahem
you do realize you bumped a three year old thread looking for pics?
whatever, it is my fav folder and here is one of da best ever from Cook:
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31091
:devilzeek
Tinysd
08-26-2009, 06:33 PM
Never got any pics. Did you ever get your knife? I WANT PICS! :devil1:
Lochsa answers: http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/showpost.php?p=421166&postcount=1141
knife_junky
08-26-2009, 06:36 PM
Congrats on that the Scotts waiting list is a bit long for me. I do have a Begg glimpse coming in a few weeks and a yuna before the end of the year but the wait on these has been about a year on the Begg and 6 months on the yuna..
Andy'sLeatherHouse
08-26-2009, 06:53 PM
Lochsa answers: http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/showpost.php?p=421166&postcount=1141
that is some funny shit there.......
"I can't sell ya what I don't have":devil1:
bigbob68
08-26-2009, 07:45 PM
ahem
you do realize you bumped a three year old thread looking for pics?
whatever, it is my fav folder and here is one of da best ever from Cook:
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31091
:devilzeek
Yup, 2006 was a good year. Cool pics too. Just wanted to know that everyone got their knives. Thanks RNST!
Bobert
08-26-2009, 10:10 PM
Lochsa answers: http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/showpost.php?p=421166&postcount=1141
Do you still have yours?
Tinysd
08-26-2009, 10:32 PM
Do you still have yours?
It is one of the few I kept. The man makes an excellent knife. Too bad he can't figure out how to return an email or phone call.
It is one of the few I kept. The man makes an excellent knife. Too bad he can't figure out how to return an email or phone call.
My sentiment exactly. My fav folder and I needed a refurb on one. Multiple emails and his phone in his shop was disconnected, so I eventually got someone else to do the touch up for me.
PM me if anyone wants to know who did an excellent job for me.
MR-RICKSTER
11-23-2009, 02:16 PM
http://www.scottcookknives.com/bench.html
Wanna place bets as to the final price?
I will go with $1650. (no I am not bidding, duh)
Crazy, sure but what the hell, the last dressed up one went for 3 grand.
:doublefu:
I like it. I am not bidding either. I say it will go for 1850.
MR-RICKSTER
11-23-2009, 03:46 PM
Wanna place bets as to the final price?
I will go with $1650. (no I am not bidding, duh)
Crazy, sure but what the hell, the last dressed up one went for 3 grand.
:doublefu:
I like it. I am not bidding either. I say it will go for 1850.
I say it hits $1950.00 to $2000.00, It must be nice to control how much money you want to make each year by taking orders or not taking orders.
:decisions:decisions Mr-Rickster :decisions:decisions
DallasSTB
11-23-2009, 03:54 PM
It'll hit $2K. I'd say it's worth somewhat less, but that's the market these days it seems.
Stabber
11-23-2009, 04:26 PM
Dat's insane!! Gotta love it!!:devil1:
Dat's insane!! Gotta love it!!:devil1:
That is Ricky's code word for " damn, I am bidding high and bidding often".
:D
p moore
11-23-2009, 04:58 PM
Stabber will be showing this one off pretty soon.:cheesydevil:
Paul
Tinysd
11-23-2009, 07:26 PM
I keep trying to bid, but he wont respond to my emails or calls. :thefinger
MR-RICKSTER
11-23-2009, 07:37 PM
Its already at $1500.00
Same guy that bought the last Damascus one for $3000.00 is high bidder......
Must be nice...........................
:cheesydevil::cheesydevil::cheesydevil: Mr-Rickster :cheesydevil::cheesydevil::cheesydevil:
stdlrf11
11-23-2009, 07:45 PM
$3150 easy.
:wtf: do I know anyways :D
$2050 and still 24 hours to go.
Clearly there are some, check that many more folks out there with much deeper pockets than me.
S10V steel blade and heat treats Ti handle + thumblugs. :bangdesk:
I wish I had the scratch to bid!!!
BGadvocate
11-24-2009, 04:33 PM
With that budget....I'd rather buy two Busmaster M4s and get the first kill.
MR-RICKSTER
11-25-2009, 04:51 PM
Went off at $2717.00 for a plain jane. Thats fuckin sick !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Were in the middle of a depression & Scott's got the world by the balls.
Good for you Scott, you paid your dues.....................
:cheesydevil::decisions Rickster :decisions:cheesydevil:
Winter
11-25-2009, 04:54 PM
That's insane. Good for Cook though.
knife_junky
11-25-2009, 04:57 PM
Looks like Scott needed some holiday scratch..
** Over ** High bid by M.L. - $2717.00 as of 12:00 MST, 11/25/09
DeanJ
03-02-2010, 12:45 AM
Four years ago today I got myself on Mr. Cook's waiting list for a Lochsa.
I still have my hopes up.
Anyone seen knives come off the waiting list lately?
1Zach1
03-02-2010, 01:01 AM
Now this is a knife we need to do a passaround and raffle of. :D
Four years ago today I got myself on Mr. Cook's waiting list for a Lochsa.
I still have my hopes up.
Anyone seen knives come off the waiting list lately?
how about saying hello like it states on the forum rules:devilzide
Mr.LaBella
03-02-2010, 03:52 AM
Four years ago today I got myself on Mr. Cook's waiting list for a Lochsa.
I still have my hopes up.
Anyone seen knives come off the waiting list lately?
how about saying hello like it states on the forum rules:devilzide
Sage advice! I think Scott's raffles fetching him "after market" prices have become the direct injection of cash I am afraid. Introduce yourself upstairs! :poke: :devilzide
DeanJ
03-05-2010, 09:07 PM
how about saying hello like it states on the forum rules:devilzide
Sorry, Done.
MiG Angel
03-05-2010, 09:25 PM
Sage advice! I think Scott's raffles fetching him "after market" prices have become the direct injection of cash I am afraid. Introduce yourself upstairs! :poke: :devilzide
A damn shame.
titanium
05-20-2010, 01:04 PM
Scott Cook family.
S30V and S90V
He does a real quality job on his knives!
Excellent knives and thanks for putting up the pics!
I love the Lochsa and have carried one for a couple of years now. I really regret trading off my only Owyhee and will look to replace it one day :D
Stabber
05-20-2010, 08:16 PM
Very nice Titanium!!:madaddy:
Mr.LaBella
08-30-2010, 06:04 AM
Lochsa, I hope to own one again....some day! Too rich for this poor boy:devilzeek
Blastmaster1972
08-30-2010, 08:16 AM
Meh. Now if he would make one in damascus with mammoth inlays...
:jdwink2:
Serious now:
Nice knives titanium. The fixed blades are not really my cup of T, but the folders are simply beautiful.
Kind regards,
Jos
ROCKOUT
08-30-2010, 11:12 AM
Nice collection !
Did Scott make the sheaths for the fixed blades ? Quality job on those as well .
David1967
09-04-2010, 03:47 PM
Nice set!
bigbob68
09-04-2010, 08:26 PM
Lochsa, I hope to own one again....some day! Too rich for this poor boy:devilzeek
EXACTLY! Too rich for me but that is sure some great pics and even better KNIVES!!
Clint
09-04-2010, 08:45 PM
All of the sheaths I've seen from Mr Cook are made by GFellers casemaker, except for my custom.
910stryker
09-04-2010, 08:53 PM
very nice :ross:
havana d
09-04-2010, 09:02 PM
Nice set!
are you talking about the knives, or your avatar? :bwah:
Mr.LaBella
09-05-2010, 07:52 AM
Mega Merge into The *OFFICIAL* Scott Cook thread
genius5th
09-18-2010, 12:38 AM
Love the lochsa, simple yet complex execution of the design
I'd love to own one!
Jeff
Stabber
12-25-2010, 11:18 AM
Heads up!!
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9045881&postcount=1
Tony8179
12-25-2010, 11:36 AM
That's alot of cashish. I still don't understand the insane asking prices on these. They're nice and all, but they look like a glorified Sebenza to me. I will admit I never handled one though.
Tinysd
12-25-2010, 11:40 AM
If he gets that price, I am selling mine. :bwah:
Stabber
12-25-2010, 11:45 AM
:bwah: Maybe not that High Tiny but close I'm sure.
Tony, Not Knockin Sebbies, but Not even in the Same Country as the Integral Lochsahttp://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif
mwalex3012
12-25-2010, 01:26 PM
A Sebenza is a great knife but cannot compare to a Lochsa. His price is pretty much what they're going for these days.
Z'ha'dum
12-25-2010, 01:54 PM
:bwah: Maybe not that High Tiny but close I'm sure.
Tony, Not Knockin Sebbies, but Not even in the Same Country as the Integral Lochsahttp://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif
:iagree:
I've handled the Lochsa and owned my share of Sebbies and the difference is immediately apparent. It'll sell and he may not have to come down too much.
I was prepared to spend close to that amount to get one but I've since gotten on Scott's list. So now all I have to do is wait...and wait...and wait...and wait
...and wait
nice heads up ricky , i will never pay that money fot that knife, now if it was 1399.99$ and we can talk:madaddy::bwah::bwah::bwah::bwah:
spyken
12-25-2010, 05:12 PM
well it sold. I didn't know they were going to be such good investments.
I bought one for $600 several years back, and sold it for the same a year later. Found the handle too small for my liking and the blade shape a bit weird. Of course I am kicking myself in the butt right now, but the butt's already bruised and kicked in as I've made similar dumb decisions on financial investments :p
xaman
12-25-2010, 05:15 PM
Thanks for the head's up Ricky, that was a quick sale for Christmas day...
Tony8179
12-25-2010, 10:39 PM
well it sold. I didn't know they were going to be such good investments.
I bought one for $600 several years back, and sold it for the same a year later. Found the handle too small for my liking and the blade shape a bit weird. Of course I am kicking myself in the butt right now, but the butt's already bruised and kicked in as I've made similar dumb decisions on financial investments :p
At $600 I would buy one. At double that, and then some, I would not. Especially when there are so many other knives out there that pique my interest much more. I'm definitely intrigued, but not $1500 intrigued.
Tinysd
12-25-2010, 11:26 PM
well it sold. I didn't know they were going to be such good investments.
I see a new Tig welder in my future. :bwah:
What was the asking price?
It was SPF by the time I saw this thread :D
Ka - ching!
bigbob68
12-26-2010, 12:21 AM
what was the asking price?
It was spf by the time i saw this thread :d
ka - ching!
$1500.00
Z'ha'dum
12-27-2010, 09:09 AM
$1500.00
Actually I believe it was $1400.
:bwah: Maybe not that High Tiny but close I'm sure.
Tony, Not Knockin Sebbies, but Not even in the Same Country as the Integral Lochsahttp://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif
i had a one in my hand and honestly i do not see what a fuck is the big deal, with that money i buy a shotgun and a very nice folder on the forums. Tony you are not missing a thing bro , ricky is right the quality of the lochsa is there no doubt but 600$ is more than a fair price.
Tony8179
12-27-2010, 06:26 PM
Actually I believe it was $1400.
It may have been dropped to $1400, but it started out at $1500.
mwalex3012
12-27-2010, 06:29 PM
It's easy to explain the big deal actually -
1) Best made integral folder on the planet as far as I know
2) Any shotgun you can buy for that money can be bought by anyone, anytime. That's not the case for a Lochsa as they don't pop up often.
i had a one in my hand and honestly i do not see what a fuck is the big deal, with that money i buy a shotgun and a very nice folder on the forums. Tony you are not missing a thing bro , ricky is right the quality of the lochsa is there no doubt but 600$ is more than a fair price.
Stabber
12-27-2010, 06:33 PM
This Explains it.Nuff Said!!http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif
It's easy to explain the big deal actually -
1) Best made integral folder on the planet as far as I know
2) Any shotgun you can buy for that money can be bought by anyone, anytime. That's not the case for a Lochsa as they don't pop up often.
It's easy to explain the big deal actually -
1) Best made integral folder on the planet as far as I know
2) Any shotgun you can buy for that money can be bought by anyone, anytime. That's not the case for a Lochsa as they don't pop up often.
that explains nothing to me, if somebody wants 1400$ of my money they better come up with a better why:devil1:, i had that knife in my hand along with a few thousand customs of all kinds and I'm not impress at all.
This Explains it.Nuff Said!!http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif
explains what?? come on Ricky , you and i know this is bullshit , it is well done but 1400$ is not worth, i mean to the buyer it obviously is or else it won't sale but in reality it sure does not to me .
Stabber
12-27-2010, 09:31 PM
easy Piasano:bwah:
Well, if anyone is upset they missed that one. Here is one Much Cheaper!!!:madaddy:
http://www.theknifecellar.com/index.asp?make_id=1024
easy Piasano:bwah:
Well, if anyone is upset they missed that one. Here is one Much Cheaper!!!:madaddy:http://www.theknifecellar.com/index.asp?make_id=1024
:bwah::bwah::bwah::bwah::bwah::bwah::bwah::bwah::b wah: hey if somebody wants to pay that mula is up to them none of my business.
Tony8179
12-27-2010, 10:47 PM
It's easy to explain the big deal actually -
1) Best made integral folder on the planet as far as I know
2) Any shotgun you can buy for that money can be bought by anyone, anytime. That's not the case for a Lochsa as they don't pop up often.
See, I don't know about that. GTC's integrals look amazing. Alot of guys are also touting the Lion Steel SR-1's as well. Is it just the fact that not many are produced the reason for the insane secondary market prices on the Lochsa?
What are the advantages of the one piece frame anyway? Please don't tell me that it makes for a stronger folder. That would be an extremely disappointing answer. Its gotta be one of those prestigious, pride of ownership things. That I can understand. :madaddy:
mwalex3012
12-28-2010, 12:02 AM
Okay, let me see if I can explain it:
1) It does make for a stronger folder
2) Everyone else doing them is coming into the market much later than Scott and as far as Lionsteel goes, come one, if you want a cheaper knock off then go for it
3) The skill needed to make that type of knife is unreal, if not then everyone could do it and some of the integrals out there are marginal at best
4) Gus does make a great integral, that is for sure but his off the bench prices are the same or higher than Scott's. The secondary costs for Gus's integral are going to be in the same ball park as for a Lochsa. Me, I'd rather have the original. Oh yeah, I own a Lochsa and one of Gus's knives so I can compare side by side. I would also have to look and see if Scott and Gus use the same techiques to build the knives - CNC versus all hand work; I just don't know.
5) Gus and Lionsteel still release more knives than Scott, I would bet.
Rio - you don't like the knife then don't buy it. A lot of people seems to see the quality of the Lochsa as they never sit for long on the secondary market and some have sold for much more than $1400.
See, I don't know about that. GTC's integrals look amazing. Alot of guys are also touting the Lion Steel SR-1's as well. Is it just the fact that not many are produced the reason for the insane secondary market prices on the Lochsa?
What are the advantages of the one piece frame anyway? Please don't tell me that it makes for a stronger folder. That would be an extremely disappointing answer. Its gotta be one of those prestigious, pride of ownership things. That I can understand. :madaddy:
The Lochsa is one of the finest folders I've handled, and I think they're just as good, if not better, than all of the other knives fetching that much. I've seen some Lochsas (plain ones) go for $2000.
Tony8179
12-28-2010, 02:18 AM
Okay, let me see if I can explain it:
1) It does make for a stronger folder
How exactly does it make for a stonger folder?
2) Everyone else doing them is coming into the market much later than Scott and as far as Lionsteel goes, come one, if you want a cheaper knock off then go for it
So because people started doing it after him that makes them not as good? Tell that to every guy that made a flipper after the first or to anyone that made a framelock folder after Chris Reeve. I simply don't understand the second part of your answer. Because Lionsteel's SR-1 happens to be a one piece frame that means it's a knockoff?
Pat Crawford was doing one piece frames with a different locking mechanism long before Scott's Lochsa came on the scene.
3) The skill needed to make that type of knife is unreal, if not then everyone could do it and some of the integrals out there are marginal at best
I agree that it does take some serious skill, but Im still not convinced that it takes $1500 worth of skill.
4) Gus does make a great integral, that is for sure but his off the bench prices are the same or higher than Scott's. The secondary costs for Gus's integral are going to be in the same ball park as for a Lochsa. Me, I'd rather have the original. Oh yeah, I own a Lochsa and one of Gus's knives so I can compare side by side. I would also have to look and see if Scott and Gus use the same techiques to build the knives - CNC versus all hand work; I just don't know.
What it looks like to me, is that Gus also puts a bit more work into his grinds, clips, inlays, and fileworking. Again, that's just what it look like to me.
5) Gus and Lionsteel still release more knives than Scott, I would bet.
Okay.... So it is a limited quantity thing after all.
Rio - you don't like the knife then don't buy it. A lot of people seems to see the quality of the Lochsa as they never sit for long on the secondary market and some have sold for much more than $1400.
I'm not trying to pick a fight or come at you sideways, but I feel that none of your responses really answer my question of why a one piece Ti frame, with a satin finished S30V blade, Plain Jane Lochsa fetches the $1500 aftermarket price. I still think that it's a prestige thing. Satisfaction of owning something that few others do. Like I said, if that is the case then I completely understand, but it just seems to me that no one who owns one will just come out and say that. I can understand the more artsy ones with damascus blades, Timascus trims, and meteorite inlays going for bigger bucks, but a one piece Ti frame and a hand satin S30V blade for $1500? C'mon.... :devilzeek
Stabber
12-28-2010, 08:52 AM
You and Rio, Go stand in the corner!!:bwah:
Clydetz
12-28-2010, 09:03 AM
If I had $1500 to spend, do you know how many customized Buck 110's I could buy? :ssmile:
You and Rio, Go stand in the corner!!:bwah:
yeap we are not buying the kool aid is all ricky, tony is right 1500$ for a sv30 blade and a integral ti handle as they used to say ni**a pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!! but again I'm not knocking down Scott's work that is really good but if he sales it for 600$ why would i pay 1500$ for it , fuck that.
If I had $1500 to spend, do you know how many customized Buck 110's I could buy? :ssmile:
yeap:devil1::devil1:
Okay, let me see if I can explain it:
1) It does make for a stronger folder
2) Everyone else doing them is coming into the market much later than Scott and as far as Lionsteel goes, come one, if you want a cheaper knock off then go for it
3) The skill needed to make that type of knife is unreal, if not then everyone could do it and some of the integrals out there are marginal at best
4) Gus does make a great integral, that is for sure but his off the bench prices are the same or higher than Scott's. The secondary costs for Gus's integral are going to be in the same ball park as for a Lochsa. Me, I'd rather have the original. Oh yeah, I own a Lochsa and one of Gus's knives so I can compare side by side. I would also have to look and see if Scott and Gus use the same techiques to build the knives - CNC versus all hand work; I just don't know.
5) Gus and Lionsteel still release more knives than Scott, I would bet.
Rio - you don't like the knife then don't buy it. A lot of people seems to see the quality of the Lochsa as they never sit for long on the secondary market and some have sold for much more than $1400.
like i said none of my business . You still have not made a point as to why pay 1400$ other than it is the folder to have which gives me no reason why to pay that kind of money for it.I'm not saying i won any kind of argument or that is bad if someone chooses to pay that $ for it i just like to be able to say that i won't .
sandwich
12-28-2010, 10:20 AM
I'd rather have 2 tricked out rj martins, than one marked up 1400 dollar knife :devilzeek :devilzeek I hope I didn't open up a can of worms there :bwah:
That said, I'm on the list for a lochsa. If I ever get it, atleast it will be for way less than that.
sandwich
12-28-2010, 10:24 AM
I think someone should do a comparison, test to destruction, of the lochsa and a sebenza and prove it really is stronger. :devilzeek :demented:
Tony8179
12-28-2010, 10:28 AM
I think someone should do a comparison, test to destruction, of the lochsa and a sebenza and prove it really is stronger. :devilzeek :demented:
Hey Ant, if you supply the Lochsa, I'll supply the Sebenza. :madaddy:
sandwich
12-28-2010, 10:32 AM
Hey Ant, if you supply the Lochsa, I'll supply the Sebenza. :madaddy:
LOL
Tony I said someone, not me! I mean, if people really want to settle the score there's only one way to find out. Typing it is not enough. In my opinion, they seem to be equally as strong because the least common denominator in both is the s30v blade, which would break/give on both before the handle probably(maybe). Only one way to find out :demented:
Edit:... Tony if I happen to hit the lottery and recieve the knife I'll gladly donate it. The chances of either one of those is slim though.
Funny how the mere mention of the name Lochsa bring so much emotion to a thread. Is it the people who have never had one and are jealous or have they actually owned one, used it and afterwards thought it was not to their liking?
Sure the aftermarket pricing is crazy. We can agree on that can we not? $600 from Cook is a good deal if you can get one from him in the next five/six years. Until that time, the aftermarket is your only hope.
A vanilla BNIB Lochsa for $1500, no thanks, I already own a few. BUT for someone who has never owned one and really wants it, sure get it because these rarely are seen for sale anymore.
I have seen Marlowe's, Onions, Siberts et al going for more than $2000 (aftermarket prices) but no one flames those prices. Why is that I wonder?
I have used a Lochsa as an EDC for a couple of years. Retains the edge very well and locks up perfectly every time. Zero blade play in any direction. I own and use Sebenza's and a Strider SMF too but they need a tweaking every now and then to ensure a good lock up. The integral lock up feature wins hands down on this aspect alone.
I got on GTC's list for one of Gus' Integrals. I will do a side by side comparison when it arrives. Should be interesting since I think Gus is one of the up and coming folder makers. He is always thinking outside of the box and has made some innovative folders to date.
Destruction test? Come on you can not be serious? :cheesydevil: How and why could that be relevant in any knife discussion? Spine whack it if you need to prove something not sure what, but there are those out there that think that is a worthy test. Post it on youtube while you are at it. All I know is people will laugh at you for being a fool to destroy a decent knife. Just because you can I suppose.
:worms:
Funny how the mere mention of the name Lochsa bring so much emotion to a thread. Is it the people who have never had one and are jealous or have they actually owned one, used it and afterwards thought it was not to their liking?
Sure the aftermarket pricing is crazy. We can agree on that can we not? $600 from Cook is a good deal if you can get one from him in the next five/six years. Until that time, the aftermarket is your only hope.
A vanilla BNIB Lochsa for $1500, no thanks, I already own a few. BUT for someone who has never owned one and really wants it, sure get it because these rarely are seen for sale anymore.
I have seen Marlowe's, Onions, Siberts et al going for more than $2000 (aftermarket prices) but no one flames those prices. Why is that I wonder?
I have used a Lochsa as an EDC for a couple of years. Retains the edge very well and locks up perfectly every time. Zero blade play in any direction. I own and use Sebenza's and a Strider SMF too but they need a tweaking every now and then to ensure a good lock up. The integral lock up feature wins hands down on this aspect alone.
I got on GTC's list for one of Gus' Integrals. I will do a side by side comparison when it arrives. Should be interesting since I think Gus is one of the up and coming folder makers. He is always thinking outside of the box and has made some innovative folders to date.
Destruction test? Come on you can not be serious? :cheesydevil: How and why could that be relevant in any knife discussion? Spine whack it if you need to prove something not sure what, but there are those out there that think that is a worthy test. Post it on youtube while you are at it. All I know is people will laugh at you for being a fool to destroy a decent knife. Just because you can I suppose.
:worms:
great post:ssmile:, i agree they do not need a test.
mwalex3012
12-28-2010, 05:20 PM
No worries about the sideways thing. You have your opinion and a thread on the internet won't change that. You did miss some of my points but that's okay. A Lochsa isn't for everyone.
I'm not trying to pick a fight or come at you sideways, but I feel that none of your responses really answer my question of why a one piece Ti frame, with a satin finished S30V blade, Plain Jane Lochsa fetches the $1500 aftermarket price. I still think that it's a prestige thing. Satisfaction of owning something that few others do. Like I said, if that is the case then I completely understand, but it just seems to me that no one who owns one will just come out and say that. I can understand the more artsy ones with damascus blades, Timascus trims, and meteorite inlays going for bigger bucks, but a one piece Ti frame and a hand satin S30V blade for $1500? C'mon.... :devilzeek
mwalex3012
12-28-2010, 05:27 PM
You know that is a very interesting, funny and odd point. Of the three you mentioned, in my opinion, the Onions are the most detail oriented builds and the most unique in design and execution. Ken stands alone when it comes to designs and builds. The other two guys build great knives but their prices are due to two major drivers:
1) Scarcity
2) Public profile
They both have forums and attend shows. I bet if Scott were more visible the opinions would start to change. Interstingly enough though, I've seen Scott's upper end Lochsa fetch much more than a comparable knife from Marlowe or Sibert.
I have seen Marlowe's, Onions, Siberts et al going for more than $2000 (aftermarket prices) but no one flames those prices. Why is that I wonder?
:worms:
Chris Daigle
12-28-2010, 05:32 PM
I bet if Scott were more visible the opinions would start to change.
Hey Mark, what do you mean by this? Does Scott not attend shows?
Hey Mark, what do you mean by this? Does Scott not attend shows?
Nope, not in years.
mwalex3012
12-28-2010, 05:52 PM
Hey Mark, what do you mean by this? Does Scott not attend shows?
I don't think so Chris. He's a pretty solitary creature as best as I can tell.
Anyone hear of Scott attending many shows lately?
Chris Daigle
12-28-2010, 05:59 PM
Well, I think it's pretty interesting that the Lochsa continues to be as popular as it is. The other makers mentioned (and it doesn't really matter who you plug in here- as long as they're in the same $ ballpark direct from the maker) all have several different models appealing to several different collectors. Yet, the Lochsa is Scott's one and only flagship (folder-wise).
More power to him. The secondary market will do whatever it wants.
You know that is a very interesting, funny and odd point. Of the three you mentioned, in my opinion, the Onions are the most detail oriented builds and the most unique in design and execution. Ken stands alone when it comes to designs and builds. The other two guys build great knives but their prices are due to two major drivers:
1) Scarcity
2) Public profile
They both have forums and attend shows. I bet if Scott were more visible the opinions would start to change. Interstingly enough though, I've seen Scott's upper end Lochsa fetch much more than a comparable knife from Marlowe or Sibert.
I just picked those three makers off the top of my head. Point being their table prices or prices direct from the maker are below $1000. Their aftermarket prices like the Lochsa prices are also sky high. I have bought a couple of Bogi's direct from Phil and they are very reasonably priced but if I were to buy the same knives off forums, they would probably be double what I paid. Same with Sibert's Mini Pocket Rocket etc - all go for 2X or 3X his price some days.
Long story short but the fact remains that their prices are never flamed when sellers are doubling or tripling the price for any maker except Cook's Lochsa.
Tony8179
12-28-2010, 07:49 PM
I just picked those three makers off the top of my head. Point being their table prices or prices direct from the maker are below $1000. Their aftermarket prices like the Lochsa prices are also sky high. I have bought a couple of Bogi's direct from Phil and they are very reasonably priced but if I were to buy the same knives off forums, they would probably be double what I paid. Same with Sibert's Mini Pocket Rocket etc - all go for 2X or 3X his price some days.
Long story short but the fact remains that their prices are never flamed when sellers are doubling or tripling the price for any maker except Cook's Lochsa.
I will gladly flame the price of any knife going for three times it's original price on the secondary market. I just don't understand price gouging like that. Whether its a production XM-18 going for $600, a Siebert Monster Pocket Rocket going for $1750, a Lochsa going for $1500, an Onion Wrinkle going for $2200, a Les George Rockeye for $1500 (?!), or some kind of Burch for $1250, I think the aftermarket prices are absolutely ridiculous and I simply will not pay them. Even if I had cash hand over fist, I still wouldn't pay these prices. While they may even be knives at the top of the food chain, I couldn't bring myself to spend that kind of money when I know what they go for directly from the maker.
Unfortunately, threads like this don't really pop up too often where you can talk about what you feel is ridiculous pricing. Most guys take things too personally and automatically assume you are slamming the maker. I assure you that I am not slamming the makers or the knives. I am simply talking about the secondary market prices. The only time I would be able to flame these prices are in For Sale threads. We all know that is a no-no so I keep my mouth shut so as not to be misconstrued as an asshole. What keeps the prices where they are at are the guys that will gladly plunk down $1500 for a $600 knife.
A man by the name of George Hull once said that a sucker is born every minute. Now I'll just wait for everyone that thinks I just called them a sucker to bombard me with PM's and unsigned red rep.
mwalex3012
12-28-2010, 07:55 PM
I agree about secondary market prices but it's all driven by supply and demand. I would love to go into my opinion on how supply and demand is being negatively effected by a few factors but that would get me flamed and shot.
I will gladly flame the price of any knife going for three times it's original price on the secondary market. I just don't understand price gouging like that. Whether its a production XM-18 going for $600, a Siebert Monster Pocket Rocket going for $1750, a Lochsa going for $1500, an Onion Wrinkle going for $2200, a Les George Rockeye for $1500 (?!), or some kind of Burch for $1250, I think the aftermarket prices are absolutely ridiculous and I simply will not pay them. Even if I had cash hand over fist, I still wouldn't pay these prices. While they may even be knives at the top of the food chain, I couldn't bring myself to spend that kind of money when I know what they go for directly from the maker.
Unfortunately, threads like this don't really pop up too often where you can talk about what you feel is ridiculous pricing. Most guys take things too personally and automatically assume you are slamming the maker. I assure you that I am not slamming the makers or the knives. I am simply talking about the secondary market prices. The only time I would be able to flame these prices are in For Sale threads. We all know that is a no-no so I keep my mouth shut so as not to be misconstrued as an asshole. What keeps the prices where they are at are the guys that will gladly plunk down $1500 for a $600 knife.
A man by the name of George Hull once said that a sucker is born every minute. Now I'll just wait for everyone that thinks I just called them a sucker to bombard me with PM's and unsigned red rep.
Chris Daigle
12-28-2010, 08:05 PM
I agree about secondary market prices but it's all driven by supply and demand. I would love to go into my opinion on how supply and demand is being negatively effected by a few factors but that would get me flamed and shot.
Your opinion should weigh in as much here as anyone though.
I honestly think that a high demand on the secondary market can really hurt a maker's reputation and he or she might not have even asked for that exposure. A double edged sword to be sure.
50calmike
12-28-2010, 08:19 PM
The demand is what drives the prices for sure. If you have it and I gotta have it, and no one else has it, I'll pay a little more. But, not 2-3 times as much.
Most of us are too impatient to wait for some of these knives from the maker. Just my :twocents:
I will gladly flame the price of any knife going for three times it's original price on the secondary market. I just don't understand price gouging like that. Whether its a production XM-18 going for $600, a Siebert Monster Pocket Rocket going for $1750, a Lochsa going for $1500, an Onion Wrinkle going for $2200, a Les George Rockeye for $1500 (?!), or some kind of Burch for $1250, I think the aftermarket prices are absolutely ridiculous and I simply will not pay them. Even if I had cash hand over fist, I still wouldn't pay these prices. While they may even be knives at the top of the food chain, I couldn't bring myself to spend that kind of money when I know what they go for directly from the maker.
Unfortunately, threads like this don't really pop up too often where you can talk about what you feel is ridiculous pricing. Most guys take things too personally and automatically assume you are slamming the maker. I assure you that I am not slamming the makers or the knives. I am simply talking about the secondary market prices. The only time I would be able to flame these prices are in For Sale threads. We all know that is a no-no so I keep my mouth shut so as not to be misconstrued as an asshole. What keeps the prices where they are at are the guys that will gladly plunk down $1500 for a $600 knife.
A man by the name of George Hull once said that a sucker is born every minute. Now I'll just wait for everyone that thinks I just called them a sucker to bombard me with PM's and unsigned red rep.
Problem is Tony, you may not but many will plonk down that kind of dough for a premium custom knife that is very difficult to find at an unreasonably high price. If you look at the average amount of time those types of knives are on the market you will find that they move within hours of being posted. NOW if everyone said " I won't buy at those inflated prices " then we might be able to make a change. Until that time we can only sit here in the bleachers and boo the people buying the knives at 3X the makers prices. :bwah:
Truth be told I bought my first secondary market knife of 2011 in November. A Les George FM 1. Even at secondary prices, I still think I got a good deal. Les' knives are getting difficult to find on the secondary market and his order book has been closed for a long time now. I am happy with my purchase and I am carrying it now.
:ross:
Tony8179
12-28-2010, 08:25 PM
I would like to hear your opinion on supply and demand. I actually think we would have many of the same thoughts. Sometimes you just gotta throw yourself into the fire.
I agree about secondary market prices but it's all driven by supply and demand. I would love to go into my opinion on how supply and demand is being negatively effected by a few factors but that would get me flamed and shot.
I would like to hear your opinion on supply and demand. I actually think we would have many of the same thoughts. Sometimes you just gotta throw yourself into the fire.
your point was well made tony , is up to each individual to pay or not pay , buy or not buy , i would never pay that kind of money for any knife but some people would and that is entirely up to them. We all know the knives are well made that is never the point of the disscussion.
Tony8179
12-28-2010, 08:40 PM
Problem is Tony, you may not but many will plonk down that kind of dough for a premium custom knife that is very difficult to find at an unreasonably high price. If you look at the average amount of time those types of knives are on the market you will find that they move within hours of being posted. NOW if everyone said " I won't buy at those inflated prices " then we might be able to make a change. Until that time we can only sit here in the bleachers and boo the people buying the knives at 3X the makers prices. :bwah:
Truth be told I bought my first secondary market knife of 2011 in November. A Les George FM 1. Even at secondary prices, I still think I got a good deal. Les' knives are getting difficult to find on the secondary market and his order book has been closed for a long time now. I am happy with my purchase and I am carrying it now.
:ross:
Rich, I completely agree with you. There will always be someone who will pay the asking price, especially for a custom knife considered so prestigious.
I too scored a Les George FM-1 on the secondary market. I got it for a fantastic price as well. Its been used a bit, but I had planned on using it anyway so it was all good. So impressed with the quality of the knife. A CPM-154 Rockeye with blue anodized Ti bolsters and clip going for $1500 is pretty ridiculous to me. Especially since I saw what it was going for the first time around.
The bottom line comes down to the seller and buyer. Some sellers love to rape ass and some buyers have no problem taking it in the tush.
Stabber
12-28-2010, 08:48 PM
Wow, What a Giant Turd toss this thread has become
Tinysd
12-28-2010, 08:50 PM
Some sellers love to rape ass and some buyers have no problem taking it in the tush.
You can't rape the willing.
We all have a certain item that we would gladly pay more than the going rate for. Lucky for me, I haven't found it yet.:bwah:
Rich, I completely agree with you. There will always be someone who will pay the askong price, especially for a infection considered so prestigious.
I too scored a Les George FM-1 on the secondary market. I got it for a fantastic price as well. Its been used a bit, but I had planned on using it anyway so it was all good. So impressed with the quality of the knife. A CPM-154 Rockeye with blue anodized Ti bolsters and clip going for $1500 is pretty ridiculous to me. Especially since I saw what it was going for the first time around.
The bottom line comes down to the seller and buyer. Some sellers love to rape ass and some buyers have no problem taking it in the tush.
I know of that Rockeye but have no idea how it got to that price in the first place. Was it originally sold to a dealer who added their bump, then to the second owner who added his bump and now to the guy trying to bail on it at $1500? That is my guess.
Secondary market is what it is and we either learn to work within it or ignore it completely. I will PM someone offering up a trade if they want to reconsider selling it outright. Sometimes it works and both parties are happy.
Also consider 'some' makers have had some sort of deal going with some collectors who have been supporting them from the very beginning. It is not unheard of that Maker X will supply Collector Y with a number of knives per year. Collector Y is able to recoup his or her investment by selling off some of these knives at a premium once a perceived shortage is achieved in the marketplace. Order book becomes full but not closed and the delivery stretches out past two/three years. Then Maker X becomes Rockstar status and Collector Y makes some serious coin. If you study some of the makers and who they sell to you may notice that some collectors are able to control the secondary market with their astute investments early in a maker's career.
Just my theory of course. I will now go back to watching my reruns of the X Files. The answer is out there :bwah:
Tony8179
12-28-2010, 10:36 PM
Wow, What a Giant Turd toss this thread has become
Not at all Ricky. That's why I love this place so much. We can have conversations like this without guys getting all butt hurt. You try to have this same conversation anywhere else and guys are calling for your head because they don't want to hear that someone else thinks they overpaid (grossly) for what they own. I have my share of knives that I think I paid too much for, but I wanted them and now I have them. I never paid 2x-3x what they originally went for, but a premium definitely.
I know of that Rockeye but have no idea how it got to that price in the first place. Was it originally sold to a dealer who added their bump, then to the second owner who added his bump and now to the guy trying to bail on it at $1500? That is my guess.
Secondary market is what it is and we either learn to work within it or ignore it completely. I will PM someone offering up a trade if they want to reconsider selling it outright. Sometimes it works and both parties are happy.
Also consider 'some' makers have had some sort of deal going with some collectors who have been supporting them from the very beginning. It is not unheard of that Maker X will supply Collector Y with a number of knives per year. Collector Y is able to recoup his or her investment by selling off some of these knives at a premium once a perceived shortage is achieved in the marketplace. Order book becomes full but not closed and the delivery stretches out past two/three years. Then Maker X becomes Rockstar status and Collector Y makes some serious coin. If you study some of the makers and who they sell to you may notice that some collectors are able to control the secondary market with their astute investments early in a maker's career.
Just my theory of course. I will now go back to watching my reruns of the X Files. The answer is out there :bwah:
Rich, I think your theory is pretty much spot on. No one wants to take a loss, but it happens. Sometimes the seller is greedy and just wants to make a ridiculous profit, sometimes the seller is just trying to make back what they put in to it, and sometimes the seller takes a hit.
The thing that gets me is when guys try to sell knives for more than a dealer does when the knife is actually available from the dealer at cost. What gets me even more is when the knife actually sells! I'm not talking about customs either. I'm talking about sprint run productions, limited run productions, or just plain old production knives that have been sold out at all the dealers and are still in high demand. I'm definitely getting away from talking about customs though.
I guess what irks me is that I've always tried to be very fair with my pricing when I do sell something. I think I've only made a small profit on a knife twice. Every other time I sell something, sometimes I break even, but usually take a hit on it. No one said that knives are good investments. :deadevil: The way I see it though is that if I'm selling a knife it's because I just never use or carry it and if I can sell it to someone who really wants it, will appreciate it, and use it then I don't mind taking a $30 hit. I've made someone's day and I can feel good about that. I like to consider it a passion or love for my hobby while some are out there just for the almighty dollar. So while I love knives others just love the money they can make by price gouging. I'm not saying that they are wrong because it's a choice that anyone selling anything has to make, but I would never buy from them and I would warn others about buying from them as well. It's been said many, many times that the knife community is a small one and that it is a relatively tight knit group. I would never want a reputation as a price gouger, but some dealers and individuals get away with it all the time and are still highly respected and people still buy from them. I just don't get how that works.
firebolt
12-29-2010, 02:35 AM
Very nice discussion, kuudoos for all
Buying knives as a investment is for a lot of people a goal,
Not for me, I always try to look at historical prices , and refuse to play the pricing rat race
There were a few dkw sandsharks for sale this year
Very high on my list
But the pricing seams to go up with every time there change hands with 30 to 40 %
I do think some makers do theme selves short in pricing there knives
Given the hours put in to a knife, to the value, the hour rate is very low
I don’t have problems buying a knife from a maker for more money.
But not in a pricing rat race, were every hand who is handling the knife wants to get the most off it
MiG Angel
12-30-2010, 09:41 PM
I know of that Rockeye but have no idea how it got to that price in the first place. Was it originally sold to a dealer who added their bump, then to the second owner who added his bump and now to the guy trying to bail on it at $1500? That is my guess.
Secondary market is what it is and we either learn to work within it or ignore it completely. I will PM someone offering up a trade if they want to reconsider selling it outright. Sometimes it works and both parties are happy.
Also consider 'some' makers have had some sort of deal going with some collectors who have been supporting them from the very beginning. It is not unheard of that Maker X will supply Collector Y with a number of knives per year. Collector Y is able to recoup his or her investment by selling off some of these knives at a premium once a perceived shortage is achieved in the marketplace. Order book becomes full but not closed and the delivery stretches out past two/three years. Then Maker X becomes Rockstar status and Collector Y makes some serious coin. If you study some of the makers and who they sell to you may notice that some collectors are able to control the secondary market with their astute investments early in a maker's career.
Just my theory of course. I will now go back to watching my reruns of the X Files. The answer is out there :bwah:
I remember wanting to buy a custom Hinderer so I contacted a certain "hoarder", he offered me one for a ridiculous price. When I said I couldn't afford his ridiculous price he accused me of backing out of a promise I never made. I really found it odd how he would have an endless supply of custom knives from that one maker.
It's too bad there will always be someone that will buy a custom for 2 or 3 times what it's worth because someone values it that much.
mwalex3012
12-31-2010, 12:29 AM
I remember wanting to buy a custom Hinderer so I contacted a certain "hoarder", he offered me one for a ridiculous price. When I said I couldn't afford his ridiculous price he accused me of backing out of a promise I never made. I really found it odd how he would have an endless supply of custom knives from that one maker.
It's too bad there will always be someone that will buy a custom for 2 or 3 times what it's worth because someone values it that much.
That unto itself is yet another odd dynamic in the knife collecting world. I have heard a few stories and will never buy knives built by certain people because of that.
Cobalt1
12-31-2010, 02:12 AM
That unto itself is yet another odd dynamic in the knife collecting world. I have heard a few stories and will never buy knives built by certain people because of that.
I am learning that lesson................. unfortunately............ :ssad:
Oliver Mendl
12-31-2010, 04:58 AM
hi,
very interesting discussion!
i think that Tony and Richard are spot on here.
in the end, theres not much you can do about it - except for not to buy.
it would suprise me, if not also certain forums highly benefit from said "collectors"/sellers.
greetings,
olli
It's easy to explain the big deal actually -
1) Best made integral folder on the planet as far as I know
2) Any shotgun you can buy for that money can be bought by anyone, anytime. That's not the case for a Lochsa as they don't pop up often.
+1 for what what he said! I LOVE my Locsha!! It is one of MY favorite knives.
Tony8179
01-01-2011, 03:52 AM
$1,800!!! I just spotted another with an S30V blade for $1,800! Fucking insanity I tells ya. :devilzeek
Darklight
01-01-2011, 08:18 PM
Big amount of money for a knife. But what a knife !
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k502/darklight111/KNIVES/th_klmiouillkkol.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k502/darklight111/KNIVES/klmiouillkkol.jpg)
Stabber
01-01-2011, 08:44 PM
:devilzeekAww man!! Whatta great Dealhttp://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif:madaddy:
$1,800!!! I just spotted another with an S30V blade for $1,800! Fucking insanity I tells ya. :devilzeek
Uncle_Jarvis
01-02-2011, 05:04 PM
Asking price is not too far off from being reasonable...
Tony8179
01-02-2011, 11:02 PM
Asking price is not too far off from being reasonable...
I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic. You would drop $1300 - $1800 for one?
I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic. You would drop $1300 - $1800 for one?
So for a long time the price of a secondary market, vanilla flavoured without any embellishments Cook Lochsa was about a grand. That would be the S30V blade, single thumb stud, Ti handle that had a media blast finish.
S90V and Damascus blades brought the price up from $1100 to $1200.
Reverse (shiny) finish brought the price up to $1200.
Beyond that there are F22 CF inserts, gold thumbstuds, custom file work, gold inlaid pins, timascus handles and other interesting stuff done to the blade and handle. Prices were basically set by the Bench Auctions and the collectors with deep pockets spent IIRC the highest was $4k. The Timascus ones went for upwards of $4k on the secondary market. Shortage of timascus and availability of billets that large made those two knives basically priceless. There will never be handles made of pure timascus ever again.
Now we are seeing a blip where people are dumping the Lochsa's on the market at an even higher secondary market price. Perhaps with Scott briefly opening his order book some folks are wanting to make a profit before there are a steady flow of Lochsas??
Ok Tony8179 here is your chance to set the so called reasonable prices, what say you?
I have four Lochsa's and I might just dump them all on the open market . . . . one day :bwah: I wouldn't want to offend you of course :D
How do you set a reasonable price for something that is unobtainable in the world on a daily basis? The knife world works with capitalism and people set the prices and if someone wants it bad enough, they buy it. If they don't the seller usually will lower the price or remove it from sales for the time being.
:decisions
i say ask whatever you want for it and i hope you get a million bucks for it, as long as there is someone ready to give it to you hell it is a free market after all.
now i just want to be able to say; you fucking paid what for that??????:bwah::bwah::bwah::bwah::bwah:
So for a long time the price of a secondary market, vanilla flavoured without any embellishments Cook Lochsa was about a grand. That would be the S30V blade, single thumb stud, Ti handle that had a media blast finish.
S90V and Damascus blades brought the price up from $1100 to $1200.
Reverse (shiny) finish brought the price up to $1200.
Beyond that there are F22 CF inserts, gold thumbstuds, custom file work, gold inlaid pins, timascus handles and other interesting stuff done to the blade and handle. Prices were basically set by the Bench Auctions and the collectors with deep pockets spent IIRC the highest was $4k. The Timascus ones went for upwards of $4k on the secondary market. Shortage of timascus and availability of billets that large made those two knives basically priceless. There will never be handles made of pure timascus ever again.
Now we are seeing a blip where people are dumping the Lochsa's on the market at an even higher secondary market price. Perhaps with Scott briefly opening his order book some folks are wanting to make a profit before there are a steady flow of Lochsas??
Ok Tony8179 here is your chance to set the so called reasonable prices, what say you?
I have four Lochsa's and I might just dump them all on the open market . . . . one day :bwah: I wouldn't want to offend you of course :D
How do you set a reasonable price for something that is unobtainable in the world on a daily basis? The knife world works with capitalism and people set the prices and if someone wants it bad enough, they buy it. If they don't the seller usually will lower the price or remove it from sales for the time being.
:decisions
Well said my friend, well said!!
bigbob68
01-03-2011, 02:02 PM
I made it on his order book before it closed. Now the wait begins. Hopefully I will still be alive.
Stabber
01-03-2011, 02:19 PM
RNST, You Lochsa Whore:devil1::madaddy:
Rio, Get in the Corner!!:pissedevil::bwah:
RNST, You Lochsa Whore:devil1::madaddy:
Rio, Get in the Corner!!:pissedevil::bwah:
Ricky, coming from you I take that as a compliment :bwah:
Tinysd
01-03-2011, 03:44 PM
How do you set a reasonable price for something that is unobtainable in the world on a daily basis?
A returned phone call or email from Cook must be worth a small fortune. :bwah:
A returned phone call or email from Cook must be worth a small fortune. :bwah:
Nope, but "priceless" :bwah:
Clydetz
01-03-2011, 05:36 PM
Before this thread started, I didn't know how to spell Lochsa. Now I not only can spell Lochsa, I know his knives are pretty expensive, too.
Stabber
01-03-2011, 06:32 PM
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif A lesson Learned
:rawks:
+1 for what what he said! I LOVE my Locsha!! It is one of MY favorite knives.
Before this thread started, I didn't know how to spell Lochsa. Now I not only can spell Lochsa, I know his knives are pretty expensive, too.
Clydetz for the win!
Suz, I know you love your Lochsa but pulease spell it right :bwah:
For those trivia buffs it is a river in Idaho where Cook lives.
XJCQAiUTBZ8
bigbob68
01-03-2011, 09:01 PM
RNST, please send me one of you Lochsa's so I know if I will like mine when I get it in 7 years or so.
Markous
01-03-2011, 09:04 PM
I am curious how many orders Scott received :devilzeek when he took orders for what, 24 hours at the beginning of October.
Tony8179
01-04-2011, 01:09 AM
I've already said what I think would be a fair mark up for a knife that the maker charges $600 for. If Scott charges $600 for a plain jane Lochsa with an S30V blade and no frills, I would pay $800 on the secondary market. I would not pay more than that. I will say that again. I would not pay more than that. That's just me. I know that others would gladly plunk down $1500 for that same knife. Great! Pay $1500. Then guys rush to get on Scott's list and they know they can buy two more at $600 a pop and then turn around and try to sell that one they bought for $1500 at $1800. Then they'll take one of the two that they just bought for $600 and turn around and sell that for $1500. They can do what they want, but to me it's bullshit and if I could call them on it I absolutely would.
The main problem to me is not "The Lochsa", it is just the main offender. The main problem to me is that people see how the Lochsa is selling and then they try to do the same thing with other maker's knives. Since Christmas I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I'm perusing some of these For Sale threads on the different forums. There are jacked up knife prices everywhere! Is this a trend? Are you not going to be able to even purchase knives directly from a maker because the Dealers and greedy bastards are going to snap up everything as soon as they are made and turn around to sell them for double their original price? Unfortunately, that's the way it looks to me. Everyone here can disagree and tell me I'm wrong, but I know what I'm seeing with my own two eyes.
I know that knife collecting is an expensive hobby. I never said that it wasn't. I have spent more on knives in the last year than I ever thought I would in a lifetime when I bought my first Spyderco Delica back in '95 or '96. Does it have to be as expensive as some of the Dealers and greedy bastards make it? Hell fucking no it doesn't have to be that expensive, but wherever you find something that people love you will find someone that wants to take advantage of that love and make all the money they can off of it. It makes me sick to my stomach. There was a particular dealer at the NYCKS that I wanted to literally hit in the face when I was looking at his ridiculously over inflated prices and he's standing there smiling at me like a jerkoff. Obviously I'm passionate about my hobby and I don't want it taken away from me by greed.
So the queston of worth comes into play a lot on all these forums. What makes one knife worth price X over another knife at price Y? When similar materials are used why is one knife priced at 10X more than another? I am not completely in the dark. I understand why certain knives are worth or cost more than another when the two knives use the same exact materials. They are all subject to fit and finish and tolerances. So to me the question comes down to is the Lochsa worth it? That's subjective. To all of you that paid a price that I may feel is too high, but you felt comfortable with, then yes it is worth it... to you. To me it is not.
A lot of guys will say thing like "I don't want to make waves." or "I don't want to start a flame war." I'm past that. It's time to bring this shit to the surface before these ridiculous prices rule the knife world. I want people to see that some of these dealers and some of these secondary market sellers aren't passionate about knives, but they're passionate about money and that's it.
Here's a perfect example of the passion for the steel and not the money. When I hear a guy like Les Robertson talk about knives I can feel and hear the passion in his voice and words. He loves knives. He may love them even more than I do. I can also see that love reflected in his pricing. I feel he doesn't gouge or try to rape the customer. When I see his pricing I feel like he is trying to do the average knife collector a service by offering excellent knives at excellent prices. Does the guy need to make money? Of course he does. Does he feel it's necessary to gouge his customers? No he does not. Les and others like him are the dealers that I would gladly hand my money to. Some of these other dealers will never see a single dollar of my money.
I've already said what I think would be a fair mark up for a knife that the maker charges $600 for. If Scott charges $600 for a plain jane Lochsa with an S30V blade and no frills, I would pay $800 on the secondary market. I would not pay more than that. I will say that again. I would not pay more than that. That's just me. I know that others would gladly plunk down $1500 for that same knife. Great! Pay $1500. Then guys rush to get on Scott's list and they know they can buy two more at $600 a pop and then turn around and try to sell that one they bought for $1500 at $1800. Then they'll take one of the two that they just bought for $600 and turn around and sell that for $1500. They can do what they want, but to me it's bullshit and if I could call them on it I absolutely would.
The main problem to me is not "The Lochsa", it is just the main offender. The main problem to me is that people see how the Lochsa is selling and then they try to do the same thing with other maker's knives. Since Christmas I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I'm perusing some of these For Sale threads on the different forums. There are jacked up knife prices everywhere! Is this a trend? Are you not going to be able to even purchase knives directly from a maker because the Dealers and greedy bastards are going to snap up everything as soon as they are made and turn around to sell them for double their original price? Unfortunately, that's the way it looks to me. Everyone here can disagree and tell me I'm wrong, but I know what I'm seeing with my own two eyes.
I know that knife collecting is an expensive hobby. I never said that it wasn't. I have spent more on knives in the last year than I ever thought I would in a lifetime when I bought my first Spyderco Delica back in '95 or '96. Does it have to be as expensive as some of the Dealers and greedy bastards make it? Hell fucking no it doesn't have to be that expensive, but wherever you find something that people love you will find someone that wants to take advantage of that love and make all the money they can off of it. It makes me sick to my stomach. There was a particular dealer at the NYCKS that I wanted to literally hit in the face when I was looking at his ridiculously over inflated prices and he's standing there smiling at me like a jerkoff. Obviously I'm passionate about my hobby and I don't want it taken away from me by greed.
So the queston of worth comes into play a lot on all these forums. What makes one knife worth price X over another knife at price Y? When similar materials are used why is one knife priced at 10X more than another? I am not completely in the dark. I understand why certain knives are worth or cost more than another when the two knives use the same exact materials. They are all subject to fit and finish and tolerances. So to me the question comes down to is the Lochsa worth it? That's subjective. To all of you that paid a price that I may feel is too high, but you felt comfortable with, then yes it is worth it... to you. To me it is not.
A lot of guys will say thing like "I don't want to make waves." or "I don't want to start a flame war." I'm past that. It's time to bring this shit to the surface before these ridiculous prices rule the knife world. I want people to see that some of these dealers and some of these secondary market sellers aren't passionate about knives, but they're passionate about money and that's it.
Here's a perfect example of the passion for the steel and not the money. When I hear a guy like Les Robertson talk about knives I can feel and hear the passion in his voice and words. He loves knives. He may love them even more than I do. I can also see that love reflected in his pricing. I feel he doesn't gouge or try to rape the customer. When I see his pricing I feel like he is trying to do the average knife collector a service by offering excellent knives at excellent prices. Does the guy need to make money? Of course he does. Does he feel it's necessary to gouge his customers? No he does not. Les and others like him are the dealers that I would gladly hand my money to. Some of these other dealers will never see a single dollar of my money.
So it's a pretty safe bet to say you will never own a Lochsa unless you got on Cook's list or find some sort of generous benefactor. :ross:
Jerzee Devil encourages frank and honest discussion. It's good to see openness when it comes to discussing the secondary marketplace. Some places get very uncomfortable with this sort of talk.
Seems to me some people's expectations are pretty high for resale when they get a so called 'grail' custom knife. Not just Lochsa's but other so called hot makers knives going for double the makers selling price. :balrog:
I collect makers whose work I enjoy and not with a view to making a buck or few hundred off of someone else. Last Lochsa I sold was for exactly what I originally paid for it. Since I live in Canada and have to pay importing taxes, shipping costs etc; it is difficult to sell my stuff back across the border and not loose money. I prefer to go the trade route with a grail for a grail attitude.
Stabber
01-04-2011, 02:18 PM
Well said RNST
Tony, get in the Corner:bwah:
You and Rio are Arguing a Pointless Point!!:deadevil: If you Don't Like The price on the secondary market , Low High or Extremely High, or Ludicrous high, Or Insanely High, Just don't Buy it= Very Fucking Simple.
Funny how They ALWAYS SELL at 2X the Original Cost ++:mabuse:
I'm Very sure Other knives have been passed through Hands for WAY MORE than the Makers original Price.
It is What it is.http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif
firebolt
01-04-2011, 03:07 PM
i was just thinking very badly, sorry
but that Cook guy has to a man of honor...
he can sell his knives for 2 the amount,
he only needs a middle man
don't get me wrong, my whole existance is to make moneyas much as i can,
and sometimes i get these kinda stupid ideas
Z'ha'dum
01-04-2011, 03:15 PM
Is $1200 or $1500 or even $1800 a lot of money to spend on a knife? Hell yes. Would I spend that kind of money on a Lochsa? I would've before I got on Scott's list a couple of months ago. If you have the money and can afford it, why not? You can't take it with you when you die. Knives make me happy and a Lochsa would make me really really happy.
It's all relative though. I also belong to Corvette clubs/forums. The guys there think spending $500 on a single knife is grounds for commitment. They swear up and down that it's a waste of money and that they would never be so foolish with their own cash. This from guys that have spent $50,000+ on garage queen cars that only get driven 6 or 7 months a year and only on the weekends!!
So it's really a personal choice where you try and balance cost with desire. For some it works, for others it doesn't.
My $.02
Well said RNST
Tony, get in the Corner:bwah:
You and Rio are Arguing a Pointless Point!!:deadevil: If you Don't Like The price on the secondary market , Low High or Extremely High, or Ludicrous high, Or Insanely High, Just don't Buy it= Very Fucking Simple.
Funny how They ALWAYS SELL at 2X the Original Cost ++:mabuse:
I'm Very sure Other knives have been passed through Hands for WAY MORE than the Makers original Price.
It is What it is.http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif
no argument here ricky, is just simple math;
person "A" buys a knife for 600$ and sales it for 1400$-1800$ and now i can't say nothing about it??????? why not , sorry pal math don't lie.
Stabber
01-04-2011, 04:13 PM
Math, Social Studies, English, Whatever :) You can Say whatever your lil heart desires, 10-20-2000 times if you Like, And Tony and Whomever else likes Too as well.:dedhorse: it's a Free world.
Apparently that High price on the Secondary market is what it is Because collectors pay ithttp://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif
Math, Social Studies, English, Whatever :) You can Say whatever your lil heart desires, 10-20-2000 times if you Like, And Tony and Whomever else likes Too as well.:dedhorse: it's a Free world.
Apparently that High price on the Secondary market is what it is Because collectors pay ithttp://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif
ches mang:madaddy::devil1: is never my business what others pay. anybody collecting bridges?? i got one for sale:bwah::bwah::bwah::bwah:
Markous
01-04-2011, 04:42 PM
i was just thinking very badly, sorry
but that Cook guy has to a man of honor...
he can sell his knives for 2 the amount,
he only needs a middle man
don't get me wrong, my whole existance is to make moneyas much as i can,
and sometimes i get these kinda stupid ideas
You make a very good point there firebolt,
He (Scott) obviously knows the aftermarket demand/pricing for his knives, selling them at the price he does shows me he just loves doing what he does.
It always boils down to the fact that people will pay what they have/want to to get the piece for their collection they desire.
I wonder what a spot on Scott's order list is worth? :bwah: cause i've got one.
Stabber
01-04-2011, 05:02 PM
Ever see When Scott auctions off one of his OWN KNIFE???? see how much it goes for??
Never mind the Secondary Market Price Of 15-18 hunnit, that is a bargain:easydevil:
mwalex3012
01-04-2011, 05:50 PM
True Stabber but the knives he puts up for auction aren't the usual Lochsa. But they do go for A LOT of money.
Ever see When Scott auctions off one of his OWN KNIFE???? see how much it goes for??
Never mind the Secondary Market Price Of 15-18 hunnit, that is a bargain:easydevil:
True Stabber but the knives he puts up for auction aren't the usual Lochsa. But they do go for A LOT of money.
If you guys re read the email from Scott about the latest order book information. You will notice that he is not doing 'embellishments' on any new orders but is saving those for the "bench" auctions. When I placed my order, I really wanted inserts like super conductor but that is not to be I suppose.
mwalex3012
01-04-2011, 10:40 PM
I saw that and I wonder if it's so he can get knives out faster? It will also reduce the number of "fancy" Lochsas out there so they might get even more expensive.
If you guys re read the email from Scott about the latest order book information. You will notice that he is not doing 'embellishments' on any new orders but is saving those for the "bench" auctions. When I placed my order, I really wanted inserts like super conductor but that is not to be I suppose.
Tony8179
01-05-2011, 08:44 AM
Well said RNST
Tony, get in the Corner:bwah:
You and Rio are Arguing a Pointless Point!!:deadevil: If you Don't Like The price on the secondary market , Low High or Extremely High, or Ludicrous high, Or Insanely High, Just don't Buy it= Very Fucking Simple.
Funny how They ALWAYS SELL at 2X the Original Cost ++:mabuse:
I'm Very sure Other knives have been passed through Hands for WAY MORE than the Makers original Price.
It is What it is.http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif
C'mon Ricky. If you've read my posts then you know I'm not a "bury my head in the sand" type of guy. To me it's not as simple as "if I don't like it, then just don't buy it". And I don't think I'm arguing a pointless point. I will never hang my head and accept what others tell me is the norm. It's the norm beause we've let it become that way. They always sell for 2x ++ their original cost because we let it happen. Everyone is so worried about getting that knife in their collection that they just want to beat the next guy to the punch no matter the cost. That's why I say it's just a presitigous item to own and that's why the secondary prices are what they are. It's fucking ridiculous is what it is. It's not that it's rare or hard to find. I've seen more Lochsas pop since Scott opened and closed his book then ever before. I wonder why?? Could it be that the guys who already own them and got onto Scott's list are unloading for as much as they can. Fuck yes that's it! Let's not kid ourselves. Since Scott opened and closed his books I've seen at least a half dozen or more for sale. All at stupid high prices.
If we're talking a matter or rarity, then why aren't guys unloading their JD Q-36's for $1400? There are only 36 of those in the entire world and there will never be more. Do you want to know why guys aren't unloading their JD Q-36's for $1400 a pop? It's because the JD Q-36 doesn't have the same nonsense magical aura around it that the Lochsa does. If a JD Q-36 popped up on any forum for $1400 the seller would be laughed at and flamed through PM's. Is the JD Q-36 less of a knife than the Lochsa? No. It just hasn't gained the recognition that the Lochsa has. And why has the Lochsa received that recognition? Does it use some sort of unbreakable, never dulling steel? Does it make panties drop when the blade is opened? Does it drop a hundred dollar bill anytime you cut something with it? No, it doesn't do any of that. Is it because the handle is made from one piece of Titanium? If that's the main selling point then consider me confused.
I know that other maker's knives have passed through hands at way more than their original cost. My posts clearly point that out. They also cleary state that, in my opinion, it is due to greedy fuckin bastards that have no love for the hobby, but love the almighty dollar. That's not me. It never will be, and I'll voice my opinion to all those greedy fuckers until the day I die.
It is what it is because we let it be that way. If we stand up and do something about it, it doesn't have to be that way. Apparantly a lot of guys agree with me due to all the greens that I've received because of my posts in this thread. I'm not trying to change the minds of guys that own or have owned them. I don't expect anyone that owns one to read my thoughts and then suddenly change their minds about the knife that they paid $1500 for. It will always be worth it to them because no one wants to think that they spent $1500 on something that is not worth $1500. What I am hoping is that some of the guys that don't own one will read these posts and start to question why some knives (not just the Lochsa) seem to sell for an exorbitant amount of money on the secondary market. I'm hoping guys will question what really makes them cost that much. I'm hoping guys will question who is taking advantage of their love for the steel and making a killing off it.
Clint
01-05-2011, 09:29 AM
I want one.
Won't pay $1500
Missed getting on the list because I have a hard time paying $600 for a knife.
Worth is subjective.
You can't get everyone to agree on what it's worth.
There will always be someone that will pay a bit more for the unobtainium.
Controlling the market is a good idea but....................... ain't happinin'!
P.S.
You'd have to pay me to eat caviar.
van Gogh had no talent.
Tony, what do you do for a living? Does someone control your ability to make money? Just askin'.
OOPS, nevermind, just read your public profile.
C'mon Ricky. If you've read my posts then you know I'm not a "bury my head in the sand" type of guy. To me it's not as simple as "if I don't like it, then just don't buy it". And I don't think I'm arguing a pointless point. I will never hang my head and accept what others tell me is the norm. It's the norm beause we've let it become that way. They always sell for 2x ++ their original cost because we let it happen. Everyone is so worried about getting that knife in their collection that they just want to beat the next guy to the punch no matter the cost. That's why I say it's just a presitigous item to own and that's why the secondary prices are what they are. It's fucking ridiculous is what it is. It's not that it's rare or hard to find. I've seen more Lochsas pop since Scott opened and closed his book then ever before. I wonder why?? Could it be that the guys who already own them and got onto Scott's list are unloading for as much as they can. Fuck yes that's it! Let's not kid ourselves. Since Scott opened and closed his books I've seen at least a half dozen or more for sale. All at stupid high prices.
If we're talking a matter or rarity, then why aren't guys unloading their JD Q-36's for $1400? There are only 36 of those in the entire world and there will never be more. Do you want to know why guys aren't unloading their JD Q-36's for $1400 a pop? It's because the JD Q-36 doesn't have the same nonsense magical aura around it that the Lochsa does. If a JD Q-36 popped up on any forum for $1400 the seller would be laughed at and flamed through PM's. Is the JD Q-36 less of a knife than the Lochsa? No. It just hasn't gained the recognition that the Lochsa has. And why has the Lochsa received that recognition? Does it use some sort of unbreakable, never dulling steel? Does it make panties drop when the blade is opened? Does it drop a hundred dollar bill anytime you cut something with it? No, it doesn't do any of that. Is it because the handle is made from one piece of Titanium? If that's the main selling point then consider me confused.
I know that other maker's knives have passed through hands at way more than their original cost. My posts clearly point that out. They also cleary state that, in my opinion, it is due to greedy fuckin bastards that have no love for the hobby, but love the almighty dollar. That's not me. It never will be, and I'll voice my opinion to all those greedy fuckers until the day I die.
It is what it is because we let it be that way. If we stand up and do something about it, it doesn't have to be that way. Apparantly a lot of guys agree with me due to all the greens that I've received because of my posts in this thread. I'm not trying to change the minds of guys that own or have owned them. I don't expect anyone that owns one to read my thoughts and then suddenly change their minds about the knife that they paid $1500 for. It will always be worth it to them because no one wants to think that they spent $1500 on something that is not worth $1500. What I am hoping is that some of the guys that don't own one will read these posts and start to question why some knives (not just the Lochsa) seem to sell for an exorbitant amount of money on the secondary market. I'm hoping guys will question what really makes them cost that much. I'm hoping guys will question who is taking advantage of their love for the steel and making a killing off it.
:ross:
So much for sitting on the fence Tony, maybe you should say what you really mean to say! :bwah:
Can we all agree that it is impossible to control a secondary market by not paying X2 or X3 the makers price? There will always be someone who will break from the heard and say 'you know what, I have a spare $1500 and I really want that knife'!
You have already stated that you won't pay more than $200 more than Cook's selling price for a Lochsa. By stating that, you admittedly have taken yourself out of the game and now your posts are sounding more like sour grapes. Custom knives will have a wide variance of prices in the secondary market and if I do not like the price, I just shake my head and move on. Perhaps the production and mid techs arena with very little variation in prices is where you ought to play. Just sayin . . .
Admittedly, I have played the secondary market and 99% of the time I am just happy to recover my initial investment. I do not buy or sell much these days but actively pursue knives via trades etc.
How would you propose questioning people who pay high prices for knives? In sales threads? That is a sure way to get a timeout here on JD if someone shits up a sales thread. I am sure other places would also take a dim view of that behaviour too. Start a Pit Thread perhaps? Call out someone who spent more than you consider reasonable? If it were me who was called out, I would just tell them to mind their own business because it is MY business only.
If you wanna play, you gotta pay.
Beyond that it is just
:crybabies:
Clydetz
01-05-2011, 12:24 PM
I believe P. T. Barnum is credited with covering this situation.
Les Robertson
01-05-2011, 01:30 PM
In 2008 the high prices of the aftermarket started to slow and in 2009 almost stopped.
Onion, Boguszewski, Emerson, and many others saw their aftermarket prices flatten.
Sales at shows started to slow.
The economy fair or foul was blamed.
In 2010 outside the Blade Show...up until November shows were still on the slide.
Until the New Jersey Custom Knife Show...the place was packed and people were spending money.
I think the combination of people paying off their credit cards (and other debt)...or at least getting it under control. Along with pent up buying frustration (or lack there of) and the economy doing a little better.
Has started to open the pricing flood gates (just a little). It will take awhile to get back to pre-2008 prices.
People speak of "supply and demand" with regards to pricing in the aftermarket.
Point in fact that is not correct...it is "Demand and Supply" that drives the prices in the aftermarket.
Forumites from around the world post up what their "grail" knife is. Letting sellers know that there is at least one person out there that will pay "the price".
Other chime in with the fact that the knife rocks...the maker is a "bro"...and forumites will feel the "love" from their fellow forumites once they purchase this knife.
For some the ability to "Rock, Suck, and Be Da Man" all at the same time is worth the money!
This sparks or further drives the "demand" for the knife with limited supply.
What happened with Lochsa prices is exactly what I wrote about previously on this forum. Scott's book opened and closed in 24 hours. Now we do not know how many knives this is and/or how long it will take him to make this amount and thus open his book again.
So now is the time to ask for top dollar for a Lochsa.
Two forum favorites Emerson and Hinderer have been offering a steady supply of knives for the last couple of years. So most anyone who wanted one...could get what they wanted.
So the knife de jour is the Lochsa.
It is the knife you have to have to get the "Maximum Forum Love" right now.
My grail knife was an Ivory handled Rod Chappel Hunting Leopard Bowie. Took me 20 years and 3 months to find one at a reasonable price. I have to admit I wasn't really looking that hard.
So if you think the Lochsa aftermarket price is out of line...don't buy it.
Complaining about aftermarket prices isn't going to change anything. It is a free market and someone can offer whatever they want too for whatever price they want too.
There was a time when Scott would attend shows and have a table full of Lochsas....why didn't you buy one then?
The reason is that most people are followers and not leaders. Once everyone wants one is the time to be selling...not buying.
Time to look for the "next" guy.
There are several right here on JD. The problem.....you won't get the "Mad Forum Love" buying one of their knives (even though you could 3--5 of them for $1800).
MiG Angel
01-05-2011, 01:31 PM
:ross:
If you wanna play, you gotta pay.
:crybabies:
That's all there is to say about that.
In 2008 the high prices of the aftermarket started to slow and in 2009 almost stopped.
Onion, Boguszewski, Emerson, and many others saw their aftermarket prices flatten.
Sales at shows started to slow.
The economy fair or foul was blamed.
In 2010 outside the Blade Show...up until November shows were still on the slide.
Until the New Jersey Custom Knife Show...the place was packed and people were spending money.
I think the combination of people paying off their credit cards (and other debt)...or at least getting it under control. Along with pent up buying frustration (or lack there of) and the economy doing a little better.
Has started to open the pricing flood gates (just a little). It will take awhile to get back to pre-2008 prices.
People speak of "supply and demand" with regards to pricing in the aftermarket.
Point in fact that is not correct...it is "Demand and Supply" that drives the prices in the aftermarket.
Forumites from around the world post up what their "grail" knife is. Letting sellers know that there is at least one person out there that will pay "the price".
Other chime in with the fact that the knife rocks...the maker is a "bro"...and forumites will feel the "love" from their fellow forumites once they purchase this knife.
For some the ability to "Rock, Suck, and Be Da Man" all at the same time is worth the money!
This sparks or further drives the "demand" for the knife with limited supply.
What happened with Lochsa prices is exactly what I wrote about previously on this forum. Scott's book opened and closed in 24 hours. Now we do not know how many knives this is and/or how long it will take him to make this amount and thus open his book again.
So now is the time to ask for top dollar for a Lochsa.
Two forum favorites Emerson and Hinderer have been offering a steady supply of knives for the last couple of years. So most anyone who wanted one...could get what they wanted.
So the knife de jour is the Lochsa.
It is the knife you have to have to get the "Maximum Forum Love" right now.
My grail knife was an Ivory handled Rod Chappel Hunting Leopard Bowie. Took me 20 years and 3 months to find one at a reasonable price. I have to admit I wasn't really looking that hard.
So if you think the Lochsa aftermarket price is out of line...don't buy it.
Complaining about aftermarket prices isn't going to change anything. It is a free market and someone can offer whatever they want too for whatever price they want too.
There was a time when Scott would attend shows and have a table full of Lochsas....why didn't you buy one then?
The reason is that most people are followers and not leaders. Once everyone wants one is the time to be selling...not buying.
Time to look for the "next" guy.
There are several right here on JD. The problem.....you won't get the "Mad Forum Love" buying one of their knives (even though you could 3--5 of them for $1800).
Demand and Supply, Supply and Demand. You say tomato, I say tomato.
I think we are all on the same page Les.
Sure the Cook Lochsa is desirable even in the secondary market. It is a great folder but at those heady prices IMHO crazy. FWIW one of those sellers was a dealer in secondary market knives (no further comment from me) and the other guy is someone I am in regular contact with about knives. He posted his Lochsa for sale mainly to bring traffic to his other knife for sale, a customer Emerson. In his heart, he doesn't want to sell the Lochsa and priced it accordingly.
Cook is definitely not the only custom maker whose knives are being jacked up on the secondary market these days. I have seen makers knives that are MSRP between $500 and $800 marked up to $1500 and $1800. Not naming names because it is easy to figure out who the sellers are and that is not the point of the discussion. I am sure the makers are scratching their heads wondering if they sold their work for far too less or if the sellers are being overly greedy. My sentiment is the latter.
I had an interesting discussion with a guy who had a folder I was interested in from a maker I have been collecting for the past two years. Selling price from the maker is $750. The owner told me he wanted $1500. I drilled a little deeper, asking questions like are you the original owner from the maker, did you buy it from a dealer or are you the second or third owner after getting it on the secondary market etc? All he would say is he was the second owner and in his opinion it was now worth $1500. Pure profiteering and an attempt to improve his collection via trades/cash by getting something from Onion, Marlowe or Bogi etc.
If my information is correct about Cook attending shows. I heard last one he attended was Blade West in 2006.
:ross:
firebolt
01-05-2011, 02:29 PM
In 2008 the high prices of the aftermarket started to slow and in 2009 almost stopped.
Onion, Boguszewski, Emerson, and many others saw their aftermarket prices flatten.
/cut tekst
wise words , thank you
regards, martin
Les Robertson
01-05-2011, 02:48 PM
Hi RNST,
Demand and Supply, Supply and Demand. You say tomato, I say tomato.
Actually no, this is not a tomato/tomato thing.
Demand and Supply is something different.
When Scott attended Shows he had several Lochsa on his table...most well under $500.
When I first started buying Onions...Bob Neal and I bought 20 of the 27 he had on his table.
Same for Walter Brend, Neil Blackwood, John Young, John W. Smith, Rick Hinderer, Bob Lum, Rob Simonich, Kit Carson and Bob Loveless and even Jerry Busse when he made customs, etc.
So the supply was there.
It wasn't until people found that they could get double and triple on the forums (and now had an inexpensive and direct route to the buyers) that the Demand was created...almost artificially.
The "flavor of the month" makers shift back and forth. As does the demand (even though the supply stays near the same).
What drives this more than anything...people want what they can't have. :D
That principle has been around long before the economic theory of supply and demand was!
Parker
01-05-2011, 03:31 PM
It wasn't until people found that they could get double and triple on the forums (and now had an inexpensive and direct route to the buyers) that the Demand was created...almost artificially.
The "flavor of the month" makers shift back and forth. As does the demand (even though the supply stays near the same).
What drives this more than anything...people want what they can't have. :D
Les, I have watched this lunacy since I was a member of the Usual Suspect forum for a while. Amazing how guys with no history as a maker and no actual handmaking but instead kit assembly of CNC'd knife parts and a flashy website could be turned into a "rising star custom tactical folder genius" over the course of a Thursday afternoon.
The net has put everything on fast forward, but I can also attribute a portion of this to an unwillingness to say that a poorly performing "knife" sucks.
As example, we have somewhere in the Reviews forum a member who bought an Aircat/ Carrillo folder.
My personal opinions of the aesthetics or ergonomics of this thing aside, according to his own testimony it did not cut garden hose due to the abominable edge geometry (brick-shaped) but the owner failed to attribute the reason it did not actually cut to it's being a crappy knife, though perhaps a wonderful knife-like object.
The failure to accept that a great many of these "grail" knives are shite knives allows folks who would otherwise starve to death as makers to continue their path as a "custom knife maker."
Sure it would suck rocks to spend $1400 on a knife which does not cut a piece of garden hose, but instead of proclaiming this otherwise minor flaw did not spoil my receipt of this blow-job worthy grail, I'd be pissed off on the phone telling the maker to expect this POS back and here is the airbill number he can use to send me a cashier's check as refund.
Once you've found that uber-awesome gotta-have-it-now knife and you can be one of the few, one of the cherished owners and worthy of the praise of the plebeian masses, it's tough to admit that what you bought may not be as excellent as you thought it was going to be. Mike Stewart said not too long ago that most people do not praise a new toy or argue in support of it because it is good at what it is supposed to do, but because they have already bought it.
Add the "Bro" mystique, add the celebutard status of owning a piece of a cult, and you've got net cred. And who'd be dumb enough to give that up? Not me! :bwah:
I should have bought a Lochsa when I had the chance years back. I'd likely have carried it daily. No matter.
Tony8179
01-05-2011, 03:35 PM
Rich, I'm a little disconcerted about the condescending tone of your post. I never said I was going to sit on the fence. I understand that the market can't be controlled. I have stated that I wouldn't pay more than $800 for the plain jane Lochsa. I also never stated that I wanted a Lochsa. So saying that I've taken myself out of the game doesn't make sense to me. It's a game I was never playing. If my posts sound like sour grapes it's not because I'm whining about the Lochsa being overpriced on the secondary market because I want one, it's because knowing that guys are going to buy them at $600 with the straight intention of selling them at $1500 pisses me off. I haven't beaten around the bush when making that point. I've stated it in about every post I've made in this thread.
To tell me that maybe I should concern myself with only Mid-Techs and prodcution knives kind of pisses me off. Because I would be absolutely unwilling to pay the kind of money that Lochsas are fetching right now that means I shouldn't be interested in customs? What is that about Rich?
You either mistake my words or you aren't reading them clearly. I never said anything about confronting or questioning collectors who pay these insane asking prices. If someone has the cash to spend and they are spending it on steel then more power to them. I would never take anything away from or begrudge any collector who has the means of expanding his or her collection. My problem is with the dealers and secondary market sellers who take full advantage of the knife collector's love of steel and exploit it to the fullest.
Rich, if your statements have been misconstrued by me then I apologize. I know that getting certain tones and attitudes across in type is not exactly easy. From what I read though, and knowing that you are a smart man, I'm pretty sure that you meant everything the way I took it.
:ross:
So much for sitting on the fence Tony, maybe you should say what you really mean to say! :bwah:
Can we all agree that it is impossible to control a secondary market by not paying X2 or X3 the makers price? There will always be someone who will break from the heard and say 'you know what, I have a spare $1500 and I really want that knife'!
You have already stated that you won't pay more than $200 more than Cook's selling price for a Lochsa. By stating that, you admittedly have taken yourself out of the game and now your posts are sounding more like sour grapes. Custom knives will have a wide variance of prices in the secondary market and if I do not like the price, I just shake my head and move on. Perhaps the production and mid techs arena with very little variation in prices is where you ought to play. Just sayin . . .
Admittedly, I have played the secondary market and 99% of the time I am just happy to recover my initial investment. I do not buy or sell much these days but actively pursue knives via trades etc.
How would you propose questioning people who pay high prices for knives? In sales threads? That is a sure way to get a timeout here on JD if someone shits up a sales thread. I am sure other places would also take a dim view of that behaviour too. Start a Pit Thread perhaps? Call out someone who spent more than you consider reasonable? If it were me who was called out, I would just tell them to mind their own business because it is MY business only.
If you wanna play, you gotta pay.
Beyond that it is just
:crybabies:
Obijuan Kenobe
01-05-2011, 03:46 PM
Read the whole thread, and I am loving this discussion.
I got into this thing very recently, so many many devils here have watched it for longer than me by FAR. So this is more of a newb's perspective.
I have wanted a Hinderer for a while now. I followed some advice...sent an email. Got a reply in one day from the man saying contact him in June when the next batch was done. Never got a response again. Zero zilch.
Around the same time, I saw a thread here on JD selling about 6 of these knives...all at prices significantly higher than Rick quoted me. I first got angry...then simply I gave up on that knife...because I am not going to pad the pockets of someone who just happens to live close to the 'ranch'.
I feel the same as Tony. I don't like it...but I understand why it happens. Monkeys with extra cash, plain and simple. I'd go so far to admit that if someone offered me 2000USD for my RJ Dress Overkill...I'd probably take the money. However, I'd never seek that much money if I did sell it.
What is a shame is that this kind of windfall sale has become a real business model that...with the help of the right maker...is EASY money. Buy four, sell two...keep two for free. That sucks IMHO.
obi
Rich, I'm a little disconcerted about the condescending tone of your post. I never said I was going to sit on the fence. I understand that the market can't be controlled. I have stated that I wouldn't pay more than $800 for the plain jane Lochsa. I also never stated that I wanted a Lochsa. So saying that I've taken myself out of the game doesn't make sense to me. It's a game I was never playing. If my posts sound like sour grapes it's not because I'm whining about the Lochsa being overpriced on the secondary market because I want one, it's because knowing that guys are going to buy them at $600 with the straight intention of selling them at $1500 pisses me off. I haven't beaten around the bush when making that point. I've stated it in about every post I've made in this thread.
To tell me that maybe I should concern myself with only Mid-Techs and prodcution knives kind of pisses me off. Because I would be absolutely unwilling to pay the kind of money that Lochsas are fetching right now that means I shouldn't be interested in customs? What is that about Rich?
You either mistake my words or you aren't reading them clearly. I never said anything about confronting or questioning collectors who pay these insane asking prices. If someone has the cash to spend and they are spending it on steel then more power to them. I would never take anything away from or begrudge any collector who has the means of expanding his or her collection. My problem is with the dealers and secondary market sellers who take full advantage of the knife collector's love of steel and exploit it to the fullest.
Rich, if your statements have been misconstrued by me then I apologize. I know that getting certain tones and attitudes across in type is not exactly easy. From what I read though, and knowing that you are a smart man, I'm pretty sure that you meant everything the way I took it.
Tony
Seems to me that there is a message in this thread that you really refuse to acknowledge.
If you do not like the price, don't buy it.
Ya gotta pay to play.
etc etc etc.
Pretty simple really. Yet, you do continue to complain about something that you have no control over and calling out people as 'greedy fuckers' is way out of line IMO. You do not know their personal situation or how/why they have jacked up the price to that level. How do you know they do not have an appreciation for steel? Just because they do not see knife resale as a charity or non profit organization does not make it right for you to flame them for their efforts. I explained a couple of posts back about the pricing of the two Lochsa's in question. One is being sold by a dealer and the other is being sold by a guy trying to get people to look at his Emerson custom for sale. Dealers on the secondary market attempt to get 40% on these sorts of knives and take a minimum of 25% if the market is soft. I know this to be fact.
I offered up the purchase productions and mid techs idea because there is very little variation in acceptable prices. It was not a slight at you or your collection just a statement of fact.
No one in their right mind would attempt to sell a stock Sebenza for $1200. Right?
If there is a maker whose work you enjoy, get on his list and buy it directly or work with a dealer who has the knives you are after for your collection.
Tell me something. If you were selling your house would you sell if for exactly what you bought it for originally or would you sell it according to current market conditions? Assuming you have lived in your current home for a while and possibly it had appreciated in value; would you feel obligated to give the buyer a break because you love houses and want to make sure the buyer thinks you are a nice guy? (Not sure about your location but in my area houses are selling and the market is recovering from a blip last year.)
Me, I would get top dollar for it and apply to my next 'grail', I mean house. Just me, but I don't leave money on the table if I don't have to, ever.
Capitalism, gotta love it.
Well if you sale me a knife and i would sale it back to you for 800$ on top of what i paid for it, how does that sound? does it feel right??? i think that is Tony's point(i could be wrong) .
and yes greed is there that's why it don't feel right to a lot people.
Now is that the way of the free market? oh well yes it is indeed but it don't make it RIGHT DOES IT?, yes it is the way, call it supply and demand or any other fancy explanation you like , but it don't feel right when i see a knife that cost 600$ and somebody wants 800$ or 1000$ profit. i say go ahead buy it is your business and do what you like with your money but anybody can also discuss how they feel about it as well.
Tony8179
01-05-2011, 05:03 PM
Alright Rich, I'll concede. This back and forth is going to get us nowhere. I never set out with any intention to change your or anybody else's mind on the subject and you obviously aren't going to change mine. I was hoping to open a few eyes or raise a few eyebrows. I thought that this topic could stay open without it getting personal or people's feelings getting hurt. I guess I was wrong. I'm sorry that my opinion of other people that you know directly was what derailed this discussion. I never named names or posted links. I never came at anyone sideways that posted in this thread. All I did was state my opinion and speak my mind. It won't happen again in this thread, but I would still like to hear other's opinions.
Stabber
01-05-2011, 07:17 PM
:ssad: My Feelings are EXTREMELY HURT:ssad:
I started this Simple Lochsa Heads up Alert Thread and it turned into a "why does it cost.....Whiny shit thread":mabuse:
:ssad: My Feelings are EXTREMELY HURT:ssad:
I started this Simple Lochsa Heads up Alert Thread and it turned into a "why does it cost.....Whiny shit thread":mabuse:
i'm sorry ricky:ssad:
Clint
01-05-2011, 08:37 PM
but I would still like to hear other's opinions.
It is what it is.
What someone does with their money is NOBODY'S business but their own.
LorenzoL
01-07-2011, 11:30 AM
I remember wanting to buy a custom Hinderer so I contacted a certain "hoarder", he offered me one for a ridiculous price. When I said I couldn't afford his ridiculous price he accused me of backing out of a promise I never made. I really found it odd how he would have an endless supply of custom knives from that one maker.
It's too bad there will always be someone that will buy a custom for 2 or 3 times what it's worth because someone values it that much.
That hoarder has since become a "dealer", guess where his prices are... :devilzeek
In the end, however, aftermarket prices are what they are and it is up to the buyer to decide how much a given knife is worth to him.
I have decided to only buy directly from makers from now on, unless it is an RJ Martin from Les Robertson, since he charges the same as RJ.
Stabber
01-07-2011, 12:10 PM
So do I:madaddy:
since he charges the same as RJ.
LorenzoL
01-07-2011, 12:29 PM
So do I:madaddy:
Then feel free to PM me when you have anything nice (let's keep this private and not tell Les, though... :bwah:).
Buffalohump
01-07-2011, 12:30 PM
I'm just really glad I am still able to enjoy knives without having an insatiable desire to own every freaking lustworthy item out there. I have missed out on and passed on some real gems over the years, because hindsight is 20/20 and I dont claim to be an expert at this game. I had a Les George FM1 on order when they still cost $385 and I cancelled cos cash was tight. Well boo hoo. I had an XM-18 on order from Rick back when he was still taking orders (on the ones he actually makes himself) and it was never delivered. Boo hoo some more. I passed on a Sibert Pocket Rocket for $450.... boy, that still hurts! :devil1:
The only thing I regret is that I never had the chance to try these wonder knives out for myself and see what the fuss is all about. Other than that, I really dont care. The only one that pisses me off is the Hinderer because he took the order but didnt deliver, but hey, whaddaya gonna do? There was a war on!
I can only wonder at people who can drop $1500 on a knife. I only hope they actually use the thing, even if its just to cut cheese. The only part of this whole game that bugs me is the thought of all these awesome knives tucked away in a safe, purchased purely as an investment. I mean come on, why not just buy freaking fine art if that's how you want to roll.
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