Shiv works Clinch Pick ?

[cdf]

Any validity to the concept ? Whats your take ?

[LONE WOLF]

There was once this Mall Ninja with a dream. To create a whole new knife fighting system. It would have to create a demand for proprietary DVDs and knives so he could make money. He pondered for days until he saw "Scream".
Ureka! he shouted. He decided to make a system for reverse grip edge in tactics, because that would appeal to his mall ninja breathren. So he whiped up some small knives that where pretty much worthless in any grip but his propietary "pikal" grip. He also had taped some videos of him and his "soldiers of security" playing with them. He sells all of these at rediculously high prices.


But we all must buy his stuff, because he is a real undercover theft prevention agent.

[wes]

There was once this Mall Ninja with a dream. To create a whole new knife fighting system. It would have to create a demand for proprietary DVDs and knives so he could make money. He pondered for days until he saw "Scream".
Ureka! he shouted. He decided to make a system for reverse grip edge in tactics, because that would appeal to his mall ninja breathren. So he whiped up some small knives that where pretty much worthless in any grip but his propietary "pikal" grip. He also had taped some videos of him and his "soldiers of security" playing with them. He sells all of these at rediculously high prices.


But we all must buy his stuff, because he is a real undercover theft prevention agent.


Do you actually believe that?

[TOB9595]

I haven't held or played with a clinch pic.

To keep the strayin off topic.
I found a great deal of validity to many of SouthNarcs methods and styles. I've even practiced many...
Same as I like Cestari and Grover....
Tom

[LONE WOLF]

The problem with the technique is reach. Reverse grip edge out requires you to be quite close, but stll allows you a good defense. Edge in reverse grip greatly reduces reach and defence. As a "rolling on the ground extreme close quarters" stuff, then yeah, I guess it woul work, although you would be much better off with the edge out so you dont get gutted with your own knife. If you want a good small close quarters fixed blade, invest in one with a slight cant to the blade, and hold it in a saber or hammer grip.


Some good fixed blade choices are:

CRKT Ryan Plan B

Kabar TDI


And a good folder:

Timberline Light Foot Pistol grip.

[Mr.LaBella]

*kicks lone wolf in the dick*

who is fucking knife fighting?

the cashier at wa wa?

shes not gonna fight you over someone elses money?...is she?

LOL

well, thats all for me!

uses his Harry Potter Brand wand to dispatch all enemies!

[LONE WOLF]

The knife in question is designed soley for fighting use. To review it in any other way, or discuss use of it in any other way, would be useless. I have never been in a knife fight, nor do I train in it. But I have read enough to know that reach is important (Swords?).

[Mr.LaBella]

you and I....?

http://media.gamespy.com/columns/image/article/552/552075/gamespys-25-most-memorable-games-of-the-past-5-years-20040928030605324.jpg

[LONE WOLF]

:idunno: :ron: :hitler: ?

[Mike Stewart]

Robert,

I think that it's all very interesting but have you ever even heard of somebody getting in a knife against knife--fight--in real life?

Plesae admit that it is very cool but is all just a lot of fun to talk about.

( Unless the Cashier at Wa-Wa gets out of line)

Mike............................:mike:

You do need to listen to me--Ron has appointed me a Real Mall Ninja.

[LONE WOLF]

Robert,

I think that it's all very interesting but have you ever even heard of somebody getting in a knife against knife--fight--in real life?

Plesae admit that it is very cool but is all just a lot of fun to talk about.

( Unless the Cashier at Wa-Wa gets out of line)

Mike............................:mike:

You do need to listen to me--Ron has appointed me a Real Mall Ninja.


I have heard of knife on knife fights occasionaly in articles. Thats it. never seen one in person, nor talked to anyone that has been in one. Still, like you said, it is fun to talk about!

[TOB9595]

I believe that these are for use when you're in close or tangled up while tussling.
Sort of a last resort blade like a HAK.
TOm

[wes]

My question was: Do you actually believe that SouthNarc is full of shit?


For those that don't know who he is, and may go off on a tear about ninjas and so on, he was a prolific poster on SDF who was also a narcotics agent for a Southern police department who also posted training techniques with firearms, knives, and unarmed combat. His techniques were tried and tested in real life situation in his line of duty. The photo sequences were most impressive as well.

[TOB9595]

And I believe SouthNarc was/is the backbone of ShivWorks. Where a lot of good SD info can be found....

Least I think it's good real world inffo where I hope never to have to use it...
Many people are in harms way in their daily lives and can greatly use this info.

Me? I'm a lover of the arts.....Knives, camping, outdoors, SD, health....
Tom

[cdf]

South Narc makes good sence . I like the size , and I like the look of it as a ground fighting tool . On balance I'd rather have an HAK , a shit simple/high retention factor groundfighting tool . Sprung on some asshat as a surprise it looks pretty mean .

Chris

[Joe Talmadge]

Hi folks! Nice place you got here. My take on the clinch pick (I'll use quotes from others to get things started, if that's okay):


have you ever even heard of somebody getting in a knife against knife--fight--in real life?

Well, that's part of the point. "Knife fight" conjures up images of west side story-like knife duels. That's not what Southnarc was going for here. In real life, you don't hear about "knife fights", but people do get knifed, right? When the bad guy has the knife, it's a criminal knife assault. When the good guy has the knife, it's self defense with a knife. In a town a few miles away from me, a couple of weeks back, some kids asked a woman to buy them beer, and she refused. The three teenagers got out and started roughing her up. Enter her husband, who fought back. They attacked him, and one of the kids even retrieved a "The Club" from the car and hit him with it. Husband pulls a knife, stabs the guy with The Club, the bad guys run away. Stabbed guy later dies. DA declines to press charges on the good guy, which is noteable in California.

Anyway, the point is, don't think about hollywood knife duels, think about criminal assaults. In real life, self defense with a weapon is somewhat rare, but it does happen. There's no reason to think that if you, the good guy, have a knife in your hand, that the bad guy necessarily has a knife as well. In fact, it's part of Southnarc's point that you'll be armed disproportionately: bad guy may be unarmed (but there may be several of them), or may be armed with a stick, or whatever. If you don't judge the clinch pick in a real-world context, it makes less sense.


But I have read enough to know that reach is important (Swords?).

Remember, we're talking criminal assault, not hollywood duel. Real assaults often happen up close and fast. You may think reach is important, but the badguy will often choose to start things closer. Again, Southnarc is recognizing the need for an in-close tool, because that's reality. It's the "I'll stand on the outside and use reach to snipe" that's the fantasy!

Given the reality of defensive uses here -- defense against criminal assault, action starting up close, bad guy(s) and good guy not armed identically -- the clinch pick starts making more sense. It doesn't make sense if you instead are thinking about hollywood fantasy "knife fights". Now you can move to the rest of the system...



The problem with the technique is reach. Reverse grip edge out requires you to be quite close, but stll allows you a good defense. Edge in reverse grip greatly reduces reach and defence. As a "rolling on the ground extreme close quarters" stuff, then yeah, I guess it woul work, although you would be much better off with the edge out so you dont get gutted with your own knife

Believe it or not, reverse grip with a short knife, properly done, doesn't sacrifice as much reach as you think. I didn't believe that either until I was taught properly. However, as previously discussed, in real life, with short blades in the context of criminal assault, I'm afraid reach is often irrelevant. Reverse grip edge-in is really effective here, and unlike edge-out it's not sacrificing effective assault-stopping techniques (thrusts and shearing) for much-less-effective ones (slashing). You won't be gutting yourself, maybe that's just something you need to drill out with a partner to convince yourself of. Forward grip edge-up sacrifices slashing ability for more damage on thrusts, which again is probably the right tradeoff.

One thing about "reverse edge" methods is that they take some practice before they become natural and instinctive. If you don't train, I tend to agree with Lone Wolf that you're likely better off with a hammer grip.

You guys are right that the Clinch Pick isn't a good choice for a knife duel (the attributes of which is what you're describing). That's not what it's for, though.

Joe

[Mike Stewart]

Joe,


I completely agree with everything you have just posted.

I am comfortable with "Reverse Grip" but would not use any knife that limited me to that grip. Defensive use of a knife can be a real possibility with a criminal. My point about Knife Vs. Knife Duels was exactly what you said about Hollywood influence. Never base reality on something you paid $7.00 to see.

Mike......................................:mike:

[Mr.LaBella]

:welcome: to the forums Joe Talmadge!

:cheers:


:ron: