Carbon Fiber versus G10

[Michelle]

Someone asked elsewhere which was stronger. There seemed to be some differing opinions, non of which were based on fact.

I've run some queries to pull up stats like tensile strenght for both, and psi compressive strength.

It seems to almost fall into the same argument as some steel comparisons. G10 seems more impact resistent but CF has a better flexibility? (Or did I get that backward?)

I know G10 is superior when it comes to extreme temps, impervious to water and corrosive chemicals, and is non-conductive. CF however is lighter weight.

Would love to hear what the "pros" think about the two in a comparison, based on factual data, not just what people "prefer" to work with or use.

Thanks!


m1

[BennytheBlade]

I think the difference b/t the 2 in negligible but I dont have any numbers to back it up.

It probably is very much like comparing 2 very similar steels.

[Suhrbier]

What are the binders used in then? I believe that G-10 uses a phenolic, but have no idea what carbon fiber uses.

Wayne

[Tinysd]

Found this on battle bot site.




Garolite

Density: .065 lbs / cubic inch
Typical Cost: $10 / lbs Garolite G-9, G-10 and G-11 are high performance fiberglass composites.
While less glamorous, its properties are very similar to carbon fiber in many ways.
Many circuit boards are made of G-10 Garolite. If you have an old PC motherboard or expansion card lying around, try breaking it in two pieces. You'll find it's amazingly tough. G-10 is also frequently referred to as FR4.
I've seen various technical data reported, but my own experiments indicate all of the mentioned grades have very similar physical performance. G-9 has a melamine binder as opposed to phenolic, and may have higher impact resistance.
Other grades of Garolite are available, but most of them are actually paper or cloth-based composites, that lack the mentioned grade's tensile strength and impact resistance.
Unlike carbon fiber, Garolite is not conductive, and hence won't interfere with radio reception.
Garlolite costs approximately 10% of what carbon fiber does.
Garolite is slightly heavier than carbon fiber.
Garolite is quite stiff, but measurably less stiff than carbon fiber is.
Garolite has poorer tensile than carbon fiber, but this may not be as important as impact resistance.
Impact resistance data for carbon fiber is hard to come by, however my own informal tests indicate that Garolite and carbon fiber are similar in this regard.
Like a lot of robot builders, I like to keep a stockpile of material available for when I feel, "moved" to put something together. Garolite's reasonable pricing makes it far more practical to do this with than carbon fiber.
McMaster Carr (http://mcmaster.com/) is the best place to purchase Garolite I've found so far.
Like carbon fiber, it's not healthy to breathe Garolite dust. Use a dust mask rated for fiberglass work and proper eye protection when cutting it.
Uncolored Garolite is generally green, and has a pattern not quite as cool looking as carbon fiber does. However, some thicknesses of Garolite are available in various sporting colors - including the ever-popular black.
Both materials are less prone to bend out of the way than Lexan, and hence may ultimately be subject to more catastrophic failure under heavy impact. Composites have little sense of humor when damaged. They hold up extremely well, until they don't

[shakie]

All I know is you better wear breathing protection when grinding/sanding or you'll DIE! Or wish you did.

[Manganr]

Death aside, I prefer CF but there has to be a cost difference too. Surely G10 is cheaper to manufacture and that's the main reason for it's more predominant use in knives?:decisions

[Mike Stewart]

The Process is basically the same for both.

As You say--the cost is the Difference between Fiberglas and Carbon Fiber Cloth.

Mike

[Brandon McKinley]

Best answer I found....


G10, micarta, and carbon fiber are epoxy resin impregnated
fiber glass fabric, cloth / canvas, and carbon fiber fabric respectively.

The ability to resist fuels or solvents is entirely dependent on what epoxy
resin was used to make the material in question. It has nothing to do with
which reinforcing material was used.

Since there are thousands of epoxy resin variations you can have thousands
of different results.

Also, since there are really no controlling specifications for these materials
as made for knife handles, there is no way to rank them for strength as it
will depend on exactly which weaves were used, how many plies, and the
diameters of the fibers used in the weaves.

Further, again since there is no controlling specification at all for surface
finish of these materials, the surface finish can vary micarta to micarta, G10
to G10, Carbon fiber to Carbon fiber. Usually, the handles of a given
material from a single maker will be fairly uniform in strength, finish, and
solvent resistance.

Suffice to say that any of these will make a very strong handle. Your best
bet is to talk to people who have handles of the material you are interested
in from the maker you are looking at. Better is to actually handle one that
makers products to see how that maker finishes that material.

Hope that helps,

[Mike Stewart]

I still think that people choose on over the other because of the way they look.

This is the way most people buy knives so it carried through to handle material too.

I guess if you are an Extreme--Ultra-Lite Freak the carbon Fiber will save you an ounce or two.

You can Identify the Extreme Ultra-Lite Hiker by asking to look at his or her toothbrush.

They drill holes in the handle to save weight.

[BennytheBlade]

I still think that people choose on over the other because of the way they look.

This is the way most people buy knives so it carried through to handle material too.

I guess if you are an Extreme--Ultra-Lite Freak the carbon Fiber will save you an ounce or two.

You can Identify the Extreme Ultra-Lite Hiker by asking to look at his or her toothbrush.

They drill holes in the handle to save weight.

*Mental Note* Drill holes in toothbrush for next XtReMe CaMpInG trip.

Its definitely a looks thing in my book. How else can you explain some of the crazy color combos. Why would you need red or blue carbon fiber?
Cause it looks cool as hell. Pistachio and green G10? Not my thing but some people like it.

[Mr.LaBella]

When I was getting an RJ Martin Rampage fixed blade, initially I wanted carbon fiber from the *look of it*. I handled them both and opted for the g-10 because it felt more secure in my hand.



Ron's disclaimer ( Mike thinks my Rampage is the Ultimate Mall Ninja Knife ) :manganr:

But I fuckin like it!

http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/rjrampage-jd.jpg

:ernie:

[Mike Stewart]

I--Obviously--am still correct.

[L R Harner]

its ok ron i like the knife too

but would maybe need CF fro super ultra mall ninja style :popcorn:

take it back black canvas works fine for me

[Mr.LaBella]

Thanks Butch, and Mike...


We need actual maker's experiences here! Come on fellahs-ladies :devilcorn:

[stephanfowler]

I still think that people choose on over the other because of the way they look.

This is the way most people buy knives so it carried through to handle material too.

I guess if you are an Extreme--Ultra-Lite Freak the carbon Fiber will save you an ounce or two.

You can Identify the Extreme Ultra-Lite Hiker by asking to look at his or her toothbrush.

They drill holes in the handle to save weight.

that is, of course, assuming they carry a toothbrush.........

[balibalistic]

I'm really not sure of the structural difference in them..,but i'd rather work g-10 over CF. and to be honest,i find g-10 has far more flex and less weight.when drilling the two..,g-10 is butter where CF requires sharp drills or it will crack and frey (spelling??) Also,i have a dedicated bandsaw blade strickly for g-10 and CF ect. CF is far more abrasive (imho) and will wear out any tool very quick.Finishing CF is great..,you can simply leave it at a 400 grit belt finish and it looks great.g-10 requires a little more attention.

Sorry Michelle,not the answer your looking for,but thats all i know about that :jduh:

[Stabber]

Isn't that canvas micarta?:mabuse:
When I was getting an RJ Martin Rampage fixed blade, initially I wanted carbon fiber from the *look of it*. I handled them both and opted for the g-10 because it felt more secure in my hand.



Ron's disclaimer ( Mike thinks my Rampage is the Ultimate Mall Ninja Knife ) :manganr:

But I fuckin like it!

http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/rjrampage-jd.jpg

:ernie:

[RoadFish]

I still think that people choose on over the other because of the way they look.

This is the way most people buy knives so it carried through to handle material too.

I guess if you are an Extreme--Ultra-Lite Freak the carbon Fiber will save you an ounce or two.

You can Identify the Extreme Ultra-Lite Hiker by asking to look at his or her toothbrush.

They drill holes in the handle to save weight.

Being the Extreme Ultra-Lite Hiker I am, I had my teeth drilled so that I could carry more Oreos!