Most overrated knife?

[wes]

Well?


Most overrated knife that you own?

Most overrated in general?


This can be a specific knife or a company.
A reason or two for your response will gain you extra marks.

[swiftfoot]

emerson

[aaron]

emerson
emerson
emerson

i have an emerson socfk or sofck or whatever the fuck its called
POS

chisel grind, who does that?

[TheBadGuy]

I agree that ALL Emerson knives are, but that seems to be coming to the surface lately, so I will say ALL Gerbers... None knife folks think they are the cats meow and I wouldn't carry one if you paid me.

OK OK, one knife in particular? How about................. the Strider Sng.... Nice knife, but WAYYYY overrated IMHO. If Benchmade can put out the 630 with a flawless F&F, then why are Sngs almost 4 times as much? B/C the hype has been created and they can charge that much, thats why... :poke:

[Tinysd]

Being compared to the 630 is tough. I have a TAD SnG and I love it! I am new to Strider knives, but I am happy with mine and will buy more. I also like the fact that their shop is minutes away on the highway. Gotta support your local shops. (yes, I own a few Buck knives)

Hell TBG, the way we buy customs tells that we think all production knives are overrated. :idunno: :help:

[Mr.LaBella]

at first i was on the emerson train.

then a thin liner and philips head screws on a 300+ waved folder of the year woke me up by scraping the inside liner.

[Tinysd]

The wave action kicks ass! Too bad the liner lock has failed on me too many times. Emerson's customer service is excellent! They told me how to correct the problem and offered to give me a new knife. I fixed it myself, but the lock should not have failed the first time. Just like TBG, frame locks are the only folders I will buy.

Dav's liner locks lock up like a champ. I will continue to purchase his knives.

http://www.davidwinchhandtools.com/

[swingshot]

T
Dav's liner locks lock up like a champ. I will continue to purchase his knives.

http://www.davidwinchhandtools.com/

Indeed. if i wasn't obsessed with two handled knives, most of my $$$ would go to Dav.

[Mr.LaBella]

hey, swingshot!

bali threads?!

[Ross]

Pat Crawford KFF. Sucker costs $500 from Pat. I've had 4 or 5 of them, none was anywhere near perfect. I sold one that had spotty finishing (rough edges on parts of the Ti liner) and so-so lockup to a Crawford collector. He said that it was the best one he'd ever seen!

To make matters worse, Pat said that he would only do warranty work on knives that he sold directly. I realize the guy's been around for a while, and must have thousands of knives out there, but if he made it, then he should make it right. To readjust the liner on a knife that I bought on the secondary market, Pat wanted $125. Heck, Tom Mayo said to bring it by his shop and he would fix it for free.

In the end, the design is good, the ergos are great, but the maker just turns me off.

[Murray]

I love the blackwood skirmish. How about the DARK OPS. I know for a fact that Mike S from BRK collects these knives.....

[Mike Stewart]

I guess I've been lucky.

All the knives from other makers that I own are super. I can't think of a knife I've bought that was less than I expected.

Mike.......................................

[bart-1]

I have been more disapointed by custom makers than production. The guys pay there bills by making knives so I will pass on the names. The production market is very competitive in my opinion, so I think you get a pretty nice knife for your dollars from the production knives. Of course when something is white hot and has a cult like following, I think the price and sometimes the quality are raised and lowerede to what the market will allow!

[Mr.LaBella]

:nana:

I need n00b input on this.


:welcome: newbies

:cheers:

[Planterz]

Let me put on my flamesuit...

Sebenzas and Striders.

Don't gang up on me just yet.

I had a regular large Sebenza as part of a passaround, and was most definitely impressed at the quality of the knife. Perfectly constructed, buttery smooth, and solid as a rock.

But I didn't find it to be the end-all knife that many people claim it to be. I didn't like the handles. For a $350 knife, it was rather boring. Now, I realize that a lot of it is subjective. I tried the Manix, and it definitely wasn't for me, but I could see how for other people, it could be. I wasn't won over by the Regular Sebenza, but I could see how other people would like it more than I...but at that price? I guess I just don't understand. Maybe to other people it indeed is an end-all knife, but a small part of me will always wonder if some of that sentiment is subconscious self-justification for the high price of the knife.

That's why I think the Sebenza is a bit overrated, or perhaps overappreciated. Damn nice knife, but for $350, I could find something much more fun, or at least different. OTOH, I wouldn't mind picking up a large Classic with wood inlays someday. On the 3rd hand, for that price, I could pick up a Firetac or something else equally unique.



Striders also seem overrated (or rather, overpriced), but that's just from what I read, not from personal experience. Too many issues over QC, and it can't be any tougher than a number of less-expensive knives from other brands. I'll likely never own a Strider, although I do like looking at them occasionally.



Keep in mind that I'm not a prude when it comes to spending money. I've got several $300+ knives myself. And all of them I consider money better spent than on a Sebenza or Strider. I'm not a hater though, I just think these knives have gotten a bit too far over the line where it becomes a matter of prestige simply to own one.

[Mike Stewart]

Speaking in General terms---

Any knife can be overrated if the guy that buys it dosen't like it or someone thinks it's not worth the money.

Since most knives that are made--Sell--they are not overrated to somebody.

Knives are only worth what folks are willing to pay for them.

When rating workmanship--It is all kind of subjective.

A factory knife can have perfect fit and finish because all the parts are cookie cuttered out to fit perfectly. If the tooling is still good and it was properly engineered. They all will be perfect--every time.

On customs and semi-customs--There is a lot of hand fitting and hand operations so fit and finish will vary from knife to knife.

You can look at that two ways. The hand fitting gives it Character OR it is less than perfect.

I guess it's all in your perspective and expectations.

Mike.......................:mike:

Murray---I gave Dark OPs Your Name and Address for thier secret Ninja mailing list.:slap:

I took the liberty of giving them you CC # and told them to just go ahead and ship you pairs of everything they make.:nana2:

[blackwatch]

I've never purchased an Emerson, so much of what I read was issues. I couldn't understand why people bought them. A following is a following, and the Wave IS cool. Still, overrated in my no-personal-experience opinion.

Strider, Sebenza, etc are well outta my price range. I can buy very nice productions for much less: mini-manix, 630, etc (all noted in others post). Maybe I'm just not at that point. I know that spending more should get you more. What if it doesn't?

Most low-mid end knives seem to be rated fairly accurate (with the previously mentioned Gerber exception).

Sometimes I feel art knives are overrated. Why pay huge$$$ for a knife you cannot use or wouldn't even want to? It was said that, if they sell, they aren't overrated to someone. I guess that drives it home. If you like it, is it overrated?

I can agree that cookie cutter knife pieces are easier to assemble than handground parts. Minor variance in a handmade knife should generally be acceptable, as knives should be used (in my opinion, again). It let's you know it was tended to personally. If a handmade is sloppy, has blade play, or some other large issue, I could imagine that being very disappointing. I've never had that experience (no from-scratch handmade folders yet).

Opinions vary, thankfully, which leaves me with actual knives to purchase.

[wes]

I disagree with TBG on the Gerbers. The small LST and the like are excellent, inexpensive knives.

I'm still not sure on the Emerson idea either. I've only handled one, but have found it to be of good quality.

It all seems to come down to the point that if you are going to buy a folder, save the money you will spend on less expensive knives and just buy a Sebenza (I don't own one yet). I don't know if I could bring myself to carry it, but I think after I did, it would be fine.

[Mike Stewart]

Wes,

I think we have a couple of different mind sets on buying knives.

Some folks wouldn't buy any knife that they wouldn't carry or use.

Others are pure collectors and never carry or use any of thier high end knives.

I guess there is a third group that is someplace in the middle and selectively carries some of thier knives and not others.

I fall into the --If I buy it--I use it--group.

Mike..........................:mike:

[LONE WOLF]

I disagree with TBG on the Gerbers. The small LST and the like are excellent, inexpensive knives.


I have never had a gerber EZ out that had a good lock. I have a scar on my knukle from one that folded up on me (no, I idi not depress the lock). Their frame and linerlocks are good, but their lockbacks are, ime, horrid.

[booger]

I have 2 Emersons that I got a couple of years ago when they had the matched serial # Surefire C2 with the knife. I think they are my most expensive folders. There is nothing really wrong with them except the liner lock does look kinda puny. But honestly, I think I have Benchmades, Spydercos,and some Camillus knives that seem of higher quality, and I paid less for all of them then I did for the Emersons.

[booger]

Hey!! I've got 50 posts!!!!!!!!!

[Mr.LaBella]

what is the newest most overrated knife?

[mrbieler]

I don't know about the "newest", but I'll jump on the "Emerson is over rated" bandwagon.

I picked up a Emerson folding karambit recently as the price was right, but by and large I don't find them remarkable. Especially in light of competative product on the market.

It's the first "quality" knife I've owned that I honestly don't think I'd worry about too much if it got stolen, broken, etc.

[hanky]

You want a big bang for the buck? Try John Smith's utility knives. Absolute perfection. hanky

[Walking Man]

For me, HANDS down, the most overrated overpriced folder are the Strider chisel ground customs. I honestly don't know much about knifemaking, but grinding 1/2 of a knife with extra thin grind just doesn't seem that hard to me.
The nightmare grinds are a close second.

[xrayzebra]

So, would it be the general consensus that (others think that) Emersons are over rated and Striders at least seem to be too expensive (,is that right?) ? I don't see much else here for consistent opinions. Every Emerson I ever handled left me with that "So what?" impression. Every Strider I have ever handled left me with that "Damn, I wish this wasn't so expensive so I could afford it because it is cool" impression - so I guess I agree.

If you go out side of this forum, there are also those who seem to think that Cold Steel is just the ceiling cat's ass. I don't see much of that sentiment here, but I guess I'd also add that outside of JD, Cold Steel might get a little more credit than due?

[44Magpie]

I had a Gerber LST that the lock broke on once. I'll never own another Gerber folder.

[claymore]

OK OK, one knife in particular? How about................. the Strider Sng.... Nice knife, but WAYYYY overrated IMHO. If Benchmade can put out the 630 with a flawless F&F, then why are Sngs almost 4 times as much? B/C the hype has been created and they can charge that much, thats why... :poke:


Mick Strider grinds and tests the lock surfaces of each and every folder Strider produces, by hand. I dont think you can say the same about a benchmade. FYI an SnG cost less than twice the price of a 630.

[claymore]

Back to the topic at hand..

The only knife I ever owned that left me completely unsatisfied was the Gerber/Emerson collab auto Gerber put out. That plunger lock is a bad joke! I'm not usually one to pile on, but if you want to talk overpriced junk, the Gerber/Emerson comes to mind immediately!

[BennytheBlade]

Some of the higher end production knives are overpriced imo. Not exactly overrated, but when I see the price, I think: "Ill just have Mr. Winston or J. or the Graham boyz make me.".

[claymore]

Striders also seem overrated (or rather, overpriced), but that's just from what I read, not from personal experience. Too many issues over QC, and it can't be any tougher than a number of less-expensive knives from other brands.

Like Mike said, terms like "overrated" and "overpriced" are completely subjective and will differ with each individual.

But the second comment there, about "quality control issues" is a statement of fact by you, can you give us some real examples?

I've owned over a dozen Striders, many of them second/third/fourth/etc-hand, some of them nearly a decade old. drawing from my own experience, I've never had any issues with QC. Couple that with the fact that each and every knife is backed by the maker and a rocksolid lifetime warranty. Now add in the fact that Strider knives have been lab and field tested by governments and organizations worldwide in terms of strength and toughness.

[claymore]

what is the newest most overrated knife?

Newest, most overrated, overpriced, overhyped, and last but not least overdue:

The Benchmade Infidel

http://www.bladehq.com/images/knives/Benchmade/benchmadeinfidel.jpg

[mrbieler]

Based on competative knives in that size range (large sebenza's, Hinders, etc, and other ti fame and liner lock folders), I think the SnG is about $50 overpriced. This style and size seems to more commonly sell in the $350 range. SnG's are about $400 new. The good news is you can get one most days of the week in barely used condition for about $300. The other knives in this category aren't as commonly available and seem to hold their value better.

IMHO of course.

I don't consider Cold Steel in this category. They don't rank high enough to be overrated or overpriced. Crap is crap. :firedevil

[The General]

Emerson.

I played with several of those knives at the IWA show a couple of years ago and every single one had an iffy lock up or was shockingly poor in some respect.

For hard user knives, they fold like a cheap suit. Striders might be poorly finished, but they are very very strong and lock up safely. Strider are expensive, but reliable. Emerson... BAH:jdvomit:

[xrayzebra]

Like I said, (although) Cold Steel doesn't get much more than a laugh here... there are some (maybe newbie) collectors who think they are the nazz. I agree they don't belong in a conversation about Striders, but that was the point. They are over rated in some circles. Not here at JD, since the only time the name comes up is when we start discussing knives that we don't care for too much.

Claymore - I have not seen you post much, where you been? I guess maybe you been lurking and when someone started trashing Striders a little it motivated you to post? It's good to believe in a product and a company but are you sure Mick Strider tests lock up on every single knife his own self? I'm not calling you out or trying to give you some shit here, just saying hello and discussing the topic at hand. I don't know enough about it to dispute it.

Just asking. And, I'm guessing that if he tests lock up, he would do more than just that. I guess it sounds unlikely to me. I'm wondering if he personally carries each one for a day or two, just to put a little personal sweat into it, too.

Sorry, man, it just reminds me of the way you occassionally see knives for sale that were "Tony's personal edc," or some other maker's own personal knife. I am off on a minor rant - I apologize for being an asshole. Your comments are good, and Striders are good. Any time somebody is getting as much money as they are asking, their product is not over priced - unless it is gasoline or some other much needed commodity that offers us little chance of NOT buying without a drastic lifestyle change.

Okay... I'm getting incoherent... next thread.

[Mike Stewart]

I have never seen or handled an Emerson so I have no opinion.

I do have a Strider.( Bob Got it For me)

Mine had no flaws in the fit and finish.

It locks up like a bank vault--better than any Sabenza I have ever seen and It came sharp. I made it sharper but that was my choice.

I would bet my life on it anytime.

Is it Pretty? NO. I didn't expect it to be pretty.

Is it Rugged ? Hell Ya.

I also have a Buck/Mayo. It is killer too. Mine has the S30V blade and is hair splittin' Sharp now.

It's lock is as strong and as positive as the Strider.

I like both of these a lot. I do realize that my opinion is Subjective. If I didn't like them---I might be able to find something to belly ache about.

MIke...................................... :devilzeek

Murray---Your Dark Ops Knives are in.

[Harley Rider]

Emerson! I have three and they are about the most underbuilt in my collection. I dont like the wave although it is fast! It leaves the knife wrong in my hand and I have to get a second grip.

Love Strider, MT, Sebenza. My EDC is a Severtec, what a tank!

Al

[BennytheBlade]

Some knives benefit from picky/good dealers.

Example- Bob doesnt send out bad knives, be it Spyderco, Strider, MT, or whatever. But I bet he sends some back more than others.

[claymore]

xrayzebra..

This topic probably had good intentions when it started but its gotten pretty lame. People start trash talking Striders and they dont even own one.:wtf2:

Yeah I'm gonna speak up cause that is bullshit. :upyours:

I dont post much. OK? And? I check the forums on a pretty regular basis these days but my interest and budget for knives rises and falls... usually in syncopation. I post when I have something to say worth saying. I guess I am a lurker then...

And Although it has nothing to do with my post, if someone buys a knife because was a makers personal carry and they believed it added some special touch to the knife then good for them. Whats it to you? I just see no reason to crap in somebody elses cherios when it has nothing to do with you. Spend your shekels on whatever makes you happy and if you dont have something nice to say about how I choose to spend my money.... shut your god damn pie hole.


I didnt ask Mick Striders permission to quote him here, but whether or not you meant to call me out you did. He posted this on another forum and it taught me a thing or two that you might be interested to learn for yourself. I think I am done with this thread now as well.




These are simply my observations….but, we hand fit every folder lock, and we have made thousands of this type of locking system….by ‘we’ I mean myself and Christopher, who is the other guy who assembles folders. I personally inspect EVERY folder that returns to the shop for ANY reason….be is sharpening or repair.
My point in this is that im not making this shit up….

Stuff….

This type of lock is strongest when the lock contact point (where the lock bar touches the blade) is as far from the pivot center as possible. The closer the contact point gets to the pivot center, the more the blade will want to walk off the lock… too high contact is one of the things I see most in first knives of this type. Additionally, the further the bump stop is from the lock and pivot, the stronger, more solid, the lock.
More vertical lock to blade contact surface is not necessarily strongest. Why? Because the more vertical lock surface area, the closer the lock gets to the pivot center. See number one.
I find a 120 grit cut on the blade lock surface is the least “sticky” of any finish. The more “polished” the lock surfaces….the more they tend to stick. Im tired as shit….so someone else will have to spend the time talking about why super finely finished steels bond to each other….
A small radius on the blade lock surface works better than a flat angle. I use a one inch radius….this applies to angle lock bar faces as well…but use a larger radius. I personally don’t think a knew maker should bother with anything but 90 degree lock faces.
Don’t mess with the damn lock bar face! It should be a 90 degree face, with the sharp edge broken off. Make adjustments on the blade not the lock bar.
If you don’t put carbide on the lock bar face, heat age it by heating the lock face until red. Some people say you have to do it three times…but you don’t. If you don’t believe me, then make sure to do it three times, while facing east…..during a full moon.
Put your detent ball in a place where it doesn’t fall on and off the blade while you action the knife. AAH!! http://usualsuspect.net/forums/images/smilies/tmi.gif Don’t speak…. Just fucking work it out.
Don’t put your detent hole where you think you should. Instead, orbit it another few thousandths towards the closed position, then use a carbide engraving tool in your drill press to chamfer the hole (during final assembly). Go a tiny bit at a time until you have the detent hold you want. Spongy detents suck.
The detent hole in the blade should not be visible while the knife is in battery.Okay ill shut up now…

m
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[xrayzebra]

Ouch. Touche. No offense intended man, seriously, I apologize, and "my bad." I was trying to say hello and engage you in friendly conversation - but I went about it in the wrong way.

I don't doubt for a moment that Striders are worth what they charge, that they are high quality knives. And, I don't question Mick Strider's integrity in any way. You wouldn't see two other comanies currently doing Strider collaborations otherwise. The fact that cheaper versions are coming out as collaborations instead of as Striders tells me that Strider doesn't want to compormise or cheapen their own brand reputation by simply doing cheaper knives themselves.

But, as long as I have now apologized and indicated my respect for Strider, I will point out that the quote you posted says "I personally inspect every folder that returns to the shop" - not every knife that leaves it.

[Mr.LaBella]

claymore, I dont think anyone is really complaining about Strider..I think a few doods said maybe they thought they were slightly overpriced???


The secondary market is very ripe with Striders. I have two very solid SMF's. My custom Nightmare Grind I had to send back immediately when NEW.....but I am not complaining either.

Hell, I think you all know I wouldnt let this turn into a dogpiling either. I dont think any of this is really anything but constructive discussion.

Speak your peace and be cool to everyone, EVERYONE!:firedevil By clicking "register" you inadvertantly signed a contract to BE COOL.:chuck:

This thread is going well :imo:

dont let them see me sweat!:ernie:

I think the most overrated custom knife or knife maker could cause some insult/injury...but we arent on THAT road!

:cheers: and :grouphug:

[mrbieler]

I do agree with the point that if you don't own a knife from a maker, you really have no business commenting on it.

One thing to say, "I thought XXX was too expensive." or "So and so's knives have never tripped my trigger."

It's a different thing to say "I don't own one and have never seen one in person, but my grandmothers third sister said they suck."

Stay in your lane and comment on what you know, not what you read or heard. My favorite post so far was the one about not knowing anything about knife making, but hey that grind can't be so hard to do. WTF? If you don't know about the job, how can you comment on how hard it is?

[BennytheBlade]

GR- I agree to a certain extent that if you dont own a knife, you dont comment, but as a collector who goes to shows pretty regularly, who has handled a ton of knives (like most people here) I think it gives me some leeway to comment.

I mean, if I go to a show looking for a knife to buy by the latest, greatest, new maker "X" and then I pick up, look at, and inspect thoroughly 6 knives made by maker "X" and the first 4 have f&f issues, and one doesnt lock up well, then I think can make a comment.

But generally I agree that if you have NO PERSONAL experience w/ the knife, then I dont think you have much reason to comment.

I think this thread IS a good thing as long as its kept to a discussion and not a brawl- Thanks for the opportunity Ronlad.:spin:

[mrbieler]

Benny, I'm with you on that and my comment was painted with a wide brush.

Some of the previous comments I've read came across as simple hearsay and that's what I was shooting at.

[MadDaddy]

This has been a good thread so far...good info/oppinions etc...keep it going.

I must say when I first got my large classic Sebenza, I was a bit like...It's ok, but whats all the hoopla about....but the more I have used and carried it over the last year, the more I have come to appreciate it's simple design and attention to detail. This is the most user servicable knife I have ever owned, it is designed so that any moron can take it apart, clean/lube, and put it back together with hardley any effort and a single tool and it will function 100% when done....no pivot teaking etc. needed.

[xrayzebra]

I PMed a more direct apology, by the way, and Claymore very graciously accepted.

You can't blame a guy for voicing a strong objection if he sees a friend taking unfair heat.

I'm surprised that there wasn't more immediate disagreement on Striders being over rated - although the consensus, as I noted seems to be more like people WISH they were a little cheaper than that they are not WORTH the money. That just seems to mean a lot of people WANT one.

I think the collaborations will resolve this. I was telling Claymore, as an aside, that I think the cheaper collaborations will probably mean more Strider sales rather than fewer. People may hesitate to spend that much on a knife like that if they've never carried one, but once they try the cheaper collaboration knives, they may be more willing to part with the extra cash for the real thing. It's a very interesting move. And obviously, the companies doing the collaborations think Strider is very influential.

I am surprised the shit hasn't hit the fan over all the Emerson comments, and nobody has gone postal. You guys do realize there are an awful lot of people who think Emerson makes the ultimate knives? I'm not one of them, but Emerson has a very loyal following.

I think the defense most likely offered for Emersons is that they are designed to be serviceable in the field with common tools, and that they are designed to be serious users. But, that somehow does not jibe with observations that some have made here.

[The General]

I would qualify that the fit and finish on my AR TAC was appaling for a knife in its price range. Ask Sal Glesser what he thought when he saw my AR!

Scales coming away, pitting on blade, poor edge set up... etc.

[BennytheBlade]

The thing thats amazing to me about Sebenzas is the QC is the best of the best. The design is great, but the customer service and QC is un-freaking-believable.

As for Striders, I cant tell if the complaints are:

1 legit,
2 are from people turned off by Micks in your face style (he doesnt have a problem expressing himself :bwah: ),

3. hater/competion or

4 a mix (probably this one)

I have a Buck Strider folder that is awesome. It will probably spur me on to get an RC after a while.

[claymore]

But, as long as I have now apologized and indicated my respect for Strider, I will point out that the quote you posted says "I personally inspect every folder that returns to the shop" - not every knife that leaves it.

Hey its like I said bro no apology needed.. When you're right, you're right.


we hand fit every folder lock, and we have made thousands of this type of locking system….by ‘we’ I mean myself and Christopher, who is the other guy who assembles folders. I personally inspect EVERY folder that returns to the shop for ANY reason….be is sharpening or repair.

Not just Mick, but him and Chris that assemble and fit the knives... and he's talking about the production striders too. I've seen the pics to prove it :)

By the way I dont know if those buck collabs are going to happen much longer. Something about Bucks new $25 made in china Strider/Buck/Strider knockoffs. :jdvomit:

GnR what you said is the same thing I was thinking.. especially the example you gave.

LaBella, can do.. from here on out I'm gonna be just like :fonz:

[Mike Stewart]

When a thread is started with an inflamatory Question--You are going to have inflamatry content in the posts.

No way around that.

The thread was not--Which knife do you like--It was which one Don't you like.

To the Question---Overrated by Whom?

All of this is highly subjective and all the responses are folks Opinions--Some may be Fact--Some may be personal Preference--Some may be Price Point issues--Some may have some other Agenda.

Regardless--We all are entitled to our Individual likes and dislikes--As long as we don't get personal

All opinions are more than welcome.

Mike....................................... :coolkid:

[Clydetz]

Well?
Most overrated knife that you own?
Most overrated in general?
This can be a specific knife or a company.
A reason or two for your response will gain you extra marks.

I can't believe this thread is over 1 year old and I never posted anything? From my experience, I'd have to say that any customized production knife is overrated. For example... give a Buck 110 a fancy turquoise or fancy wood handle or an etched blade and you still have the same knife that will cost loads more but won't perform 1 iota better. They are overrated because of their beauty, not their performance. Of course this won't stop me from admiring or buying them. :-D
I'd also call the balisong an overrated knife. It is unique in it's styling and you can do crazy, wild 'flips' with it (I sure as hell can't tho) but it's just a knife and not a comfortable handled knife at that.
There! I said it and I'll go down with the ship! :sailor:

[OilMan]

Mick Strider grinds and tests the lock surfaces of each and every folder Strider produces, by hand. I dont think you can say the same about a benchmade. FYI an SnG cost less than twice the price of a 630.

I call BS on that.

[mrbieler]

I can't believe this thread is over 1 year old and I never posted anything? From my experience, I'd have to say that any customized production knife is overrated. For example... give a Buck 110 a fancy turquoise or fancy wood handle or an etched blade and you still have the same knife that will cost loads more but won't perform 1 iota better. They are overrated because of their beauty, not their performance. Of course this won't stop me from admiring or buying them. :-D
I'd also call the balisong an overrated knife. It is unique in it's styling and you can do crazy, wild 'flips' with it (I sure as hell can't tho) but it's just a knife and not a comfortable handled knife at that.
There! I said it and I'll go down with the ship! :sailor:

Reads like the postings of a very jealous man.:bwah:

[claymore]

Mick Strider grinds and tests the lock surfaces of each and every folder Strider produces, by hand. I dont think you can say the same about a benchmade. FYI an SnG cost less than twice the price of a 630.I call BS on that.



we hand fit every folder lock, and we have made thousands of this type of locking system….by ‘we’ I mean myself and Christopher, who is the other guy who assembles folders.

SnG Retail Price: $400.00
630 Retail Price: $250.00

does Blackwood even touch the 630's ? :idunno:

[OilMan]

:idunno:

What I'm calling BS on is this part:

Mick Strider grinds and tests the lock surfaces of each and every folder Strider produces, by hand.

doh! You already hashed this out with xrayzebra. Sorry, I must have missed that.

[The General]

One thing I will say is Striders often go at full retail, rarely discounted.

Benchmade knives are discounted just about everywhere. $250 retail means nothing when the knife can be had for $140 or less.

[Les Robertson]

Interesting thread, my question is in the title. Why do you buy these overpriced and/or overhyped knives?

I have to claim complete ignorance on the factory knives. I only know that for the most part they are doing what the custom guys were introducing 2-3 years ago.

Here is the test when buying an Custom knife from a dealer. Ask the dealer if they will take the knife back (the knife will have to be in mint condition) in trade (at full price) towards a more expensive knife 2 years from now. If they won't do, don't buy it. Why because it is overpriced and overhyped.

Armed with that knowledge if you buy a custom knife from a dealer that doesn't stand behind the knife and maker they are representing. You will not have a complaint with anyone other than yourself.

[ericsgreen]

trolling around and look my buddy is trashing my favorite knife of all time

:( xray is complaining about cost, that is not funny at all, no.

Emerson is such a piece of shit, I had a cheap one and a cqc 7 tanto. I have never seen such a piece of crap, sorry to the folks who still like emerson from the days when nothing better was around...

I could rant on emerson for a day, they are flimsy and could be dangerous if not used as a cutting tool only.

Its just nuts how they got this recognition from years ago, that book and all, all for nothing...every year at blade the emerson table is nuts, the lottot system and all, it is the funniest thing EVERY YEAR.

liner locks are a joke, I cant even really see a place in the world for them...

I could never complain about strider prices, the end product and the serivce you get with it are worth it. But they are rather plain, in a good way I think, no frills, use it like a tool and when it breaks send it back.

I have had issues, three striders owned, two folders had to go back, lockup trouble, BOTH were back inside of 14 days with no charge for shipping or anything. And they gave me %10 leo discount at blade on the last SNG year befvore last.

Strider rocks so hard, I was jsut telling ron I wwill continue to pay $500 for smf's, faverite knife I have EVER had. I guess I wasnt able to convince xray.

I think bigger guys like striders, they are big scales, big finger notches, better for folks at 6ft I bet. I wonder what the average height of a striderer is vs a sebbieilian?

I think customs in general are overrated, I like to use my stuff or at least carry it. But with prodo you get the same knife, and its more likely to be a prefect fit and finish. I certainly REFUSE to get into the makers that use their own steel and heat treat. I need s30v, and a bos heat treat ideally. I think I was a small collector, now just a user. I would still buy a knife from mr winston or al alexander if I liked the way it looked, they are jsut giving them away at those prices.

I thnk dalton are overated too, they are cool, some are the best ideas in auto knives, like the crross thing and those knucles wih blades, but the fit of the knives is always dissappionting. not like MT is alto better, but the final fit of the knives is always good, and I have only sent one MT away for a little service.

[silenthunterstudios]

I had an old Benchmade Emerson CQC, it was okay, I've never handled a true Emerson model. I believe that Cold Steel is overrated, but the real problem with CS is that its owner is an ass. Some of his knives were pretty good, such as his zytel handle folders, like the Voyagers and el Hombre, and some of his carbon steel FB's.

As for Strider, I've priced SNG's and SMF's at lowest I can get them for new, about 300 to 350 for both. They can be had used for much less on the forums. Are they really worth 300 bucks? I guess with anything, it's whatever the market will bear. Thankfully, Striders and CRK hold their value as long as they're not beat to hell and back.

[Parker]

Striders do hold their value, but the one thing I;ve never figured out, and maybe some of you Strider guys can help me with is this -

Why is it that every ardent defender of the Strider Faith refuses to address how the knives are full of sharp edges, ridges and notches all over the handle-side of the knife? For the price of a $400 folding knife, my SNG for example was the fourth SNG I had bought. All four of them felt worse in the hand than a fistfull of legos.

My current SNG, as well as my itty bitty PT benefitted immensely from an hour's worth of gentle application of a 3M sanding pad judiciously applied to the jigsaw teeth or traction ridges or whatever they are on the back of the handle and the butt end, as well as all the way around the handle, the thumbhole, the lockbar, etc.

Why is that acceptable, or is it not and it gets overlooked or downplayed? I figure some explanation involving the use of gloves, but this is still a factor in my opinion of a knife I paid $350 and $250 new from a dealer.

I also cannot figure out why Striders are delivered fairly consistently with pitting evident on the blade, not rust pitting, but actual exposed voids in the steel, due to the sectional mass density of the steel and the characteristics of S30V. These pits are setting the knife up for corrosion, and while a small amount of surface corrosion at the spine or along the flats will not affect performance, I just find it odd that at this price point, these items are considered normal instead of flaws?

The knives have improved substantially over the six generations for damned sure, but in the end, they have a lot of catching up to do in the fit and finish department. For $400 retail, I'm not sure that luxury should be afforded, especially since in the building stage the maker has a lot of opportunity to address these issues I several seconds per unassembled piece versus the entire knife as a whole.

I figure since i own the knives, I get my opinion. I share this opinion freely and you can post it anywhere or mail it to whomever. But I'd like your opinions back on these issues specifically.

I'll say this, I really dig the PT - it's cute, the way a Case Butterbean is cute. I'd not choose it as my first tool in an emergency, but as a fun little blade, I could not pass it up. I liked the little skeleton blade actually, but my own experience with skeleton handles is they don't fit me, so this was a neat compromise that worked.

[Parker]

I think bigger guys like striders, they are big scales, big finger notches, better for folks at 6ft I bet. I wonder what the average height of a striderer is vs a sebbieilian?




Eric, I'm 6-1 or 6-2, weigh in at 190, XL gloves with medium frame - not long and bony, not mesomorph. Classic light-heavyweight frame.

A Large Seb, either classic or standard fit me great, though the Classics at a bit better.

I have not cared for the angle of engagement/ blade-target interface that the SnG encourages.

That said, as posted above, I'm on my fourth, so it's not like I'm not trying, they just don't mesh for me. I love the design concept, the layered lightweight construction. I wonder if it is the clip design, which I've never liked in comparison to the Seb, since otherwise, given a thorough dehorn it would make an awesome hot-weather running, water or beach blade in about any locale.

[Harley Rider]

I think most people don't complain about their Striders because thay are users. I have an SNG, SMF, and a AR. When I got my first Strider (GB) I remember saying the same as you did Parker. Damn this isnt a MT!

However, once I realised the purpose of the Strrider was to beat the snot out of it, the littls flaws (if you can call them that) were ok. I wrote to the Strider guys because the blade was scratched and Mick wrote back and said "Put some blood on it" No problem! They are not safe queens, None of them.

I'd like to beat the snot out of this one!

HR:jdsmokin:

[Parker]

Yeah, but is that blood supposed to be on the handle or the blade? :spin:

Okay, one buyer/ user - anyone else?

[ericsgreen]

Yeah thats a great point, a person would need to know ahead of time these arent display knives, not safe queens.

My smf had a little jagged piece of metal where it looks like it was cut with an arc welder, I filed it down. I think the point is where its at, the buisness end, while the scales/frame are critical thier fit isnt really, right down to it I guess fit is never the important part of a knife for me.

I like to use or carry mine, so they are going to have wear anyhow, maybe its partly that we all hate to take a mint knife and use it, striders are like pre-used for you, lol.

I wanteed to see if I NEEDED to oil my strider, I thought the coating would be complete, its not, after it was used for couple of months it had light surface rust on the flats, I sanded it right of, but the damage to the coating was done, I had to take some off of course, more prone now I guess, but I CANT WAIT until I can fuck it up bad enough to send it off for a complete overhaul or just buy a gen 2. I keep tuf glide on it, and grease in the pivot...now.

I sold my sng, I had a gen 4, only one I had, it was nice, too much handle not enough blade, I got an SMF and its my best knife by far. Im taller too, I think the smf is best for bigger folks, thats what I meant. I would think you would NEED an SMF at your height?

Its crap the fit isnt %100 every time for that $, I admit it, if it was a MT that had a chunk of the anodizing missing, I would freak, we all would. not like MTs arent users either, my other faves are the tanto UT6 serrated, I carry that bitch alot, but I would still be pissy if it wasnt mint from the box.

I remeber when I got my first strider at blade, I paid for it, and then stodd there waiting for a box or sheath or sleeve or something...guy handed me a flimsy receipt and stared at me like what do you want...thats the strider thing, I mean I dont know but a bos heattreat is one of the nicest more reputable treats, so maybe they try to keep prices low where it counts, save $25 and let knives go with snagglers and ugly screws.

no, there really isnt an excuse, for $475 new an smf ought to be perfect, but I will accept them as they are, there isnt much close, maybe a blackwood fits nice in my hand, but I will buy them for awhile I think , I know and we all know if one breaks, or has an issue the strider guys will take it back and send you a new one, I think most of aspire to send a knife back to strider worthy of being trashed and need be replaced outright, I know my coating is worn as hell, but they will probably replace it and send me a new knife so I wouldnt have to wait. no charge either, doesnt matter if its used, they dont even care to ask, and thats not so rare, but the time, your not going to go without, period, I had to send back the sng I got at blade, right after b lade, I think that was was under a week, CA to ATL.

I just love strider, I dont even need to read about how the knife is a user, you can jsut tell by the look and feel, you know it...it screams use me, I wont break, Ill still look good. Drop me, dont be scared to swim with me. The only thing you dont want to do with a strider is LOSE it, and the clip is uber tight, God I love strider.

FYI, I had one sebbie, wood inlay, so classic I think, It was nice, for any use, I think about getting another one, like one of those everyone should have, they are what strider should be I guess, theres no reason not to snad them down to perfection. But If I had to pick one, I need the one that isnt going to slip out of my hand, or cut me when I stab at something, the grippy g-10 combined with the forefinger groove is my heaven...I do want another sebbie...Thats :eric: anyhow

[ericsgreen]

GODDAMN THAT THUMBHOLE IN THE DAMASCUS NIGHTMARE IS SICK!

MAkes me want to mod mine...

Really though I think damascus is antistrider, I think its for looks not use, I would use it if it was as hard and durable as s30v, bet on that:firedevil

[silenthunterstudios]

The only experience I have with Striders is the PT I carried in a passaround, and the PT I recently got in a trade. Both were smooth, and to my eye, had no imperfections.

[OilMan]

Yeah thats a great point, a person would need to know ahead of time these arent display knives, not safe queens.

My smf had a little jagged piece of metal where it looks like it was cut with an arc welder, I filed it down. I think the point is where its at, the buisness end, while the scales/frame are critical thier fit isnt really, right down to it I guess fit is never the important part of a knife for me.

I like to use or carry mine, so they are going to have wear anyhow, maybe its partly that we all hate to take a mint knife and use it, striders are like pre-used for you, lol.

I wanteed to see if I NEEDED to oil my strider, I thought the coating would be complete, its not, after it was used for couple of months it had light surface rust on the flats, I sanded it right of, but the damage to the coating was done, I had to take some off of course, more prone now I guess, but I CANT WAIT until I can fuck it up bad enough to send it off for a complete overhaul or just buy a gen 2. I keep tuf glide on it, and grease in the pivot...now.

I sold my sng, I had a gen 4, only one I had, it was nice, too much handle not enough blade, I got an SMF and its my best knife by far. Im taller too, I think the smf is best for bigger folks, thats what I meant. I would think you would NEED an SMF at your height?

Its crap the fit isnt %100 every time for that $, I admit it, if it was a MT that had a chunk of the anodizing missing, I would freak, we all would. not like MTs arent users either, my other faves are the tanto UT6 serrated, I carry that bitch alot, but I would still be pissy if it wasnt mint from the box.

I remeber when I got my first strider at blade, I paid for it, and then stodd there waiting for a box or sheath or sleeve or something...guy handed me a flimsy receipt and stared at me like what do you want...thats the strider thing, I mean I dont know but a bos heattreat is one of the nicest more reputable treats, so maybe they try to keep prices low where it counts, save $25 and let knives go with snagglers and ugly screws.

no, there really isnt an excuse, for $475 new an smf ought to be perfect, but I will accept them as they are, there isnt much close, maybe a blackwood fits nice in my hand, but I will buy them for awhile I think , I know and we all know if one breaks, or has an issue the strider guys will take it back and send you a new one, I think most of aspire to send a knife back to strider worthy of being trashed and need be replaced outright, I know my coating is worn as hell, but they will probably replace it and send me a new knife so I wouldnt have to wait. no charge either, doesnt matter if its used, they dont even care to ask, and thats not so rare, but the time, your not going to go without, period, I had to send back the sng I got at blade, right after b lade, I think that was was under a week, CA to ATL.

I just love strider, I dont even need to read about how the knife is a user, you can jsut tell by the look and feel, you know it...it screams use me, I wont break, Ill still look good. Drop me, dont be scared to swim with me. The only thing you dont want to do with a strider is LOSE it, and the clip is uber tight, God I love strider.

FYI, I had one sebbie, wood inlay, so classic I think, It was nice, for any use, I think about getting another one, like one of those everyone should have, they are what strider should be I guess, theres no reason not to snad them down to perfection. But If I had to pick one, I need the one that isnt going to slip out of my hand, or cut me when I stab at something, the grippy g-10 combined with the forefinger groove is my heaven...I do want another sebbie...Thats :eric: anyhow

You know your marketing is good when you can convince people that inferior fit and finish is an "undocumented feature". From now on I'd like to be the one who decides what is and isn't a user rather than have the company who made it, shoddily, do it for me.:thumbdown

[ericsgreen]

go ahead and call a strider shoddy:bwah: you better have owned at least one.

no one said this is the last end-all knife for YOU. I dont know why but I am mildy offended you used strider and shoddily in a sentence, I dont own stock, WTF do I care if no one else in the owrld likes a strider:bwah:

I didnt get down for all the hype years ago, i was curious, but would never buy, finally I held one in my own hand at blade and that was it for me :)

[ericsgreen]

haha oilman, yeah I jsut heard about your RCC that came shitty out of the box, that is a load of crap.

I still want one though, but $625 might be too much.

[OilMan]

go ahead and call a strider shoddy:bwah: you better have owned at least one.

no one said this is the last end-all knife for YOU. I dont know why but I am mildy offended you used strider and shoddily in a sentence, I dont own stock, WTF do I care if no one else in the owrld likes a strider:bwah:

I didnt get down for all the hype years ago, i was curious, but would never buy, finally I held one in my own hand at blade and that was it for me :)

I've owned/do own one or two so I'm pretty sure I'm qualified to say whatever I want about them.
And as far as being mildly offended I'd like to say that I was mildly offended when 8 out of 10 of my Striders had to go in for service when brand new. Sometimes on my dime and if I raised a question about having to pay for shipping multiple times on brand new knives then on Strider's dime. And then to have the next cool aid drinker list all his problems with the fit/finish of them before he states how nice they are is laughable. Yes, they are definately nice if you luck out and get a good one right out of the gate or get them serviced but you shouldn't have to rely on luck for a product that costs that much. Even when I was into Striders I would have never recommended them to someone else. I knew that I had to add shipping in twice to three times on new ones to be fixed so I couldn't recommend them to anyone with a clean conscience. YMMV

later,

oil

ps. It was a RC, not the RCC that I most recently had issues with. Funny thing was though, Mick himself said that it looked like I dragged it behind my car while insinuating that I was a liar. That was a BRAND NEW RC. Then he proceeded to act like this was the first time he had heard about the F/F problems that people have been complaining about for years. Whatever. Just not for me.

pss
came shitty out of the box
Actually it was the famous Strider ziplock bag.

[ericsgreen]

I still like them :eric:

[OilMan]

I still like them :eric:

Perhaps the :eric: has something to do with it?:nana2: :jimmymac:

[Mike Stewart]

Oilman & Ericsgreen,

I think the real point here is what one of you percieves as a Solid-Rugged User the Other thinks is Shoddy.

You are both correct--To Yourself and From Your own Perspective.

No Need to Be-Labor the Point.

Thanks,

Mike

[OilMan]

Did I miss a message from Eric or did it get edited out?

Apparently it did get deleted, I didn't think that kind of thing happened here.:idunno:

Plus, just so as you all know, I have nothing against Eric or his opinions which I believe he knows. This ain't a fight is what I'm getting at.:ernie:

[cutty]

I thought it was funny. And no, not much get's deleted, but as you know, them's fighting words to some folk. As a matter of fact that was the first time I got a notice something was deleted. I think it was a good call.
Sorry, feel free to say it a different way, But I think we get your point.:jdwink3:

PS: It was nothing about oilman.

[OilMan]

I thought it was funny. And no, not much get's deleted, but as you know, them's fighting words to some folk. As a matter of fact that was the first time I got a notice something was deleted. I think it was a good call.
Sorry, feel free to say it a different way, But I think we get your point.:jdwink3:

PS: It was nothing about oilman.

Ya, I got it emailed to me when Eric posted and I thought it was funny too although I only saw the first line. Maybe the fighting words were in the second line. I figured maybe Mad Dog was guest modding.:clydetz:

[ericsgreen]

No, this is now funny again :)

That was it oilman, he is saying that one sentence is fighting words to some...

I think Iam getting old, I am not fighting, I know some strider politics, I just like the blade, thats all...I wouldve emailed you everything that was deleted oilman :)

somewhere else I think has the one sentence link reply emails, I get full replies here, maybe I changed a setting in user cp...

[cutty]

I guess I didn't see the whole thing either. Just the one line--nothing about MD. If you want to bust balls go to fili-buster. This the knife section, we try to keep it nice here. Again Sorry

BTW--I like Dalton's and Micro.

[OilMan]

nothing about MD.

No, the MD reference was in relation to the editing. Sorry, I wasn't very clear.

[xrayzebra]

Shout out to my buddy, Eric.... (and we ARE buddies IMHO, so this is not a call out, it's a clarification, and a friendly one)

Hey man, I don''t think I COMPLAINED about Strider... I think I summarized what I was reading, saying something like "looks like (other) people think Emersons are overrated and Striders are overpriced." I was trying to get a consensus for my own info. (In fact, it's my guess that you were just busting my balls here when you said I was complaining... seems like a coupe people like to put words in my mouth - like I need to say more - just to make me squirm a little and make me issue repentant apologies. I should just get back on the fucking boat.)

I also, think that I qualified this at least once, that I do not own one, disqualifying myself from being able to legitimately complain about anything to do with Striders. I also engaged in some discussion of the difference between overpriced and overrated, and said, in other words, that if someone is willing to pay the price, then the product isn't over priced.

Many people buy Striders at the going price. If I didn't say it directly enough - I think they are great knives with an obvious following and many fans... the thing you should read between the lines is that means they must be worth the money.

You obviously think they are, and I take that as a reliable and worthy opinion, my bro. I'd buy one based on your say so. Sorry I didn't chime in with that statement earlier. I been staying away from this thread, just knowing that I'd open my mouth and put my foot deep into it again. :devilzeek

Looking forward to seeing YOU and some of these other devilz at BLADE IN JUST ANOTHER WEEK! Yee Haw ! And, I will definitely be drooling at the Strider table, myself. Don't know if I will spring for one, but I'll be looking.


FOR THE RECORD: I have NOTHING negative to say about Striders. If you see anything I have said above that seems to be a negative comment, point it out to me so I can edit it. I already edited a couple of my original comments to reflect what I really meant

[cutty]

Oh--Ok-:slap:

I think that any overpriced "tatical" knife company that begin's with "black", and has a lot of money to start, will stop soon.






'

[xrayzebra]

The term "cryptic" comes to mind. :bwah:

[cutty]

The term "cryptic" comes to mind. :bwah:

In Jersey "cryptic" is a way of life.:D:

[OilMan]

And, I will definitely be drooling at the Strider table, myself.

I may be wrong but I didn't see Strider listed as having a table at Blade this year. Are they going to be there?

[OilMan]

Oh--Ok-:slap:

I think that any overpriced "tatical" knife company that begin's with "black", and has a lot of money to start, will stop soon.


Are they still even making knives? I haven't seen any threads about them for quite a while.

[bart-1]

Ti-Nives!! I still have 1 and like it, but what a bombed product link and talk about a hard to hold onto handle! The last time I talked to the owner, he said he was leaving the knife business and searching for lost treasure in the ocean? Crazy man! Wonder how I use my lifetime warranty!?

[cutty]

You got it Bob, and I can think of others. Any company that goes with the "Super tac, blood grove or deaminating, will be gone. Unless home shopping take them on.

The problem is that they will change their name or someone else will take their place.










'

[ericsgreen]

just bustin balls mike :)

strider will be at the show oilman, in case you arent kdding :) they have some bro knives and some contests for folks who arent going to be there...

I dont think I am looking for a strider this year, not retail anyhow, I cant figure out where to head first when I get there.

I cant believe no one else thinks emerson is overrated, isnt it the defintiion of overrated? popular but for no good reason? Im gonnna get flamed up in here :)

[Willieboy]

I guess the most overrated knives I have owned were Rekats. I own three models at this time, the Pocket Hobbit, Carnivour and Sifu, and all are excellent. However, the Sifu and Carnivour are replacements for the same models that had quality control issues. Rekat's quality control issues finally caught with them and they no longer make knives. It's too bad too because they offered some excellent, unusual designs that when properly executed resulted in some really fine blades.

[Mr.LaBella]

I handled one of the Gerber autos this past weekend


Pfffft.

Bttt

[BlueSkyJaunte]

I'm sure I'll get on a variety of shitlists for saying this, but I've never been impressed by any Strider knife I've handled. Especially considering the price.

Likewise the Spyderco Manix I owned wasn't worth the 100+ clams. The pivot was pretty sloppy and the edge chipped far easier than it should have.

[bigbob68]

I have a Sebbie & like it so I guess that I will have to get a Strider SMF so I can decide & trash talk if needed. I am 6'8" so the SNG would be to small for my hands as the regular Sebbie is cool but I prefer bigger knives. Now the quest begins to find a SMF.

[Dtex]

Most over rated= Strider
Ugliest= Spyderco

[Tinysd]

I carry one every day, but the Sebenza is not all it is hyped up to be. Before I bought one, I read so many posts that just read, "Get a Sebenza and you will see/understand the hype."

I felt let down when I opened the box. :bwah: Maybe if I had been carrying a crappy knife before I would have been impressed, but I was carrying a Microtech Socom.

[archieblue]

I can;t really make a negative comment on over-hype... The only knives I've owned which might fit was in my "pre-homework" days, and that would be a CRKT M-16, at least I think it was an M-16. I had to constantly adjust the pivot. I diddn't like it, so I gave it to a cousin who is clueless... ..you know the type... one who would buy a "surgical steel" katana on TV and think it is "Tits."

I just want to say my 2cents about Strider:

I've owned four Strider folders, and two Strider Fixed blades. All of the folders were 2007-08 make.. maybe there were issues addressed over the past two years, because there were no let downs here. The RCC was kind of a crappy design overall, but freakin PERFECTLY and flawlessly built. The SnG Gen6 was perfect in every way except blade centering, which just isnt an issue for me unless it touches the scale. My PT CC (currently being sold by Dale Fuller on the BF) was perfection in every way. THAT knife is a truly perfectly faceted Gem...just a LITTLE small for me. My SnG CC (currently for sale, though possibly being withdrawn now that I'm coming to my senses) is just bliss. It is the most perfect knife I've ever owned. I like everything about it except the stop pin (the thumb stud thingy in the blade) is a tad too long for the CC with its radiused scales. It IS sloppy in comparison to a Chris Reeve Folder, but Reeve's tolerances could be considered too tight for Strider's intentions. I think if you were "in the shit" the SnG would be less likely to be adversely effected by dirt and grime. BUT... who's gonna take a $400 (in this caase $475) folder to it's likely demise. Well... this is where a HUGE catch 22 comes in. Strider's warranty. I think of the price of the SnG actually including for you two or three knives in it's (or your) life. It seems to me like anything, and I mean ANY-thing that concerns you with the knife can/will be remedied by sending it in. I've not dealt with them, so I can't really comment.

I do think that the SnG is epensive, and that sucks, but you get a lot for it. ...For me, it is an ideal design, and the ideas behind what you get are awesome. I freakin' love this knife. My only hope is that Mick has a few little opinionated asshole spawns to carry on his company, so my kids can enjoy these things as tools as much as I do.

[Worker]

Most over rated= Strider
Ugliest= Spyderco

Funny... I think those are the top 2 production knife companys out there.

[Peter Lezard]

Different strokes for different folks...I'm not much on these thread, as its hard for people not to "defend" a favorite, and that can lead to hurt feelings.... I hope we can stay on track... :jdwink2:

[Will]

I'm not too keen on me saying who is overrated since it's pretty subjective since the value is whatever the user perceives it to be. Now there are quite a few knives I have not liked but I would not always want to say they are overrated since that is just my opinion. An example for me would be SIG. Other than the P210 I have never really liked them. I have bought them before but only when it was a really good price that I could just not pass up. As for folders I've always had a soft spot for Striders.

[bigbob68]

The wave action kicks ass! Too bad the liner lock has failed on me too many times. Emerson's customer service is excellent! They told me how to correct the problem and offered to give me a new knife. I fixed it myself, but the lock should not have failed the first time. Just like TBG, frame locks are the only folders I will buy.

Dav's liner locks lock up like a champ. I will continue to purchase his knives.

http://www.davidwinchhandtools.com/


What is "TBG"? Thanks

[Tinysd]

What is "TBG"? Thanks

TBG=:color:

TBG=TheBadGuy, one of the founding members of this fine site that had a huge collection of framelocks before he sold them to fund his firearm addiction.

[cdf]

Of the makes I have been exposed to , I would say the most cosistently dissapointing have been Emersons ( Prodos ) . Quality can be very patchy , the over reliance on liner locks sucks . I have owned at least half a dozen or so , some of which I have enjoyed . I would never buy site unseen .

I have had good luck with Striders , CRK , Benchmade , and Spyderco ( one exception being a DoDo with lock issues ( which I fixed ) .

The best engineered lines I have come across are Benchmade , and Victorinox .

The most innovative , have been Spyderco . Sal is willing to try new stuff and take chances . Kudos to him!

Another overrated line is modern day Case , QC can be anywhere from top notch to dangerous , I would never buy site unseen . Collectors cum their loads over them due to the ease of dating .

Pretty well all my recent aqusitions have been Victorinox . Honest utility , and value for the overstretched buck !

Chris

[jimmyjo]

Funny... I think those are the top 2 production knife companys out there.
Strider I don't own one they cost to much, as for Spyderco they set the market back in the 80s and I don't think collecting would have been shaped like it is today without them.

[rooikat]

Robert Terzoula's folders.
I like the designs, I still have 2 of them. But, the guy is a horse's butt, and does not stand behind his work. He has sold flawed designs, knows it, and does not care.
When I approached him with one of his knives that had a design flaw at the NYC show, He told me he was aware of the problem, and to buy another knife! When I asked if he could help me out with the one I had already purchased from him to the tune of $375, he said NO.
When I expressed remorse at not being able to carry of use the knife, he directed me to Pat Crawford's table to get a useable carry knife. Very, very odd.

[waffle]

Robert Terzoula's folders.
I like the designs, I still have 2 of them. But, the guy is a horse's butt, and does not stand behind his work. He has sold flawed designs, knows it, and does not care.
When I approached him with one of his knives that had a design flaw at the NYC show, He told me he was aware of the problem, and to buy another knife! When I asked if he could help me out with the one I had already purchased from him to the tune of $375, he said NO.
When I expressed remorse at not being able to carry of use the knife, he directed me to Pat Crawford's table to get a useable carry knife. Very, very odd.

Well, Ain't that some shit.:madfacedevil:

[jimmer_5]

I carry one every day, but the Sebenza is not all it is hyped up to be. Before I bought one, I read so many posts that just read, "Get a Sebenza and you will see/understand the hype."

I felt let down when I opened the box. :bwah: Maybe if I had been carrying a crappy knife before I would have been impressed, but I was carrying a Microtech Socom.

It's kind oif interesting - I didn't get Sebenza's at first. I handled a few at knife shows and wasn't overly impressed.

Then a year or two later I decided to buy one - I truly believe that the Sebenza is a knife that you need to play with for a few days to truly appreciate. It is not everything to everybody - for example, it's not one that you will flick open super fast - if you need that, get a flipper. However, the smoothness, the tight tolerances, and the subtle details (like the use of a blade bushing) make this one of the best EDC knives out there.

I spent two years trying out all the cheaper framelocks thinking that I could circumvent owning a Sebbie. They were all good knives, but the Sebenza still justifies the premium price. In my opinion, The Benchmade 630/635 Skirmish is the best value (bang for your buck), but the tightest knife is still the Sebbie.

As we speak, I am debating whether or not to buy my first Strider, but I think it's a moot point - I think I need to really try it to know. I've handled a few, and yes, I do think they're a bit overpriced, but there's nothing else quite like them.

And as the Strider's price goes, the market will bear it, so in capitalist reality, they are not overpriced. Same goes for the Sebenza. I WISH they were cheaper, but if people will pay it......

Hell, go look at what custom Microtechs fetch these days - $4500 for a Masterpiece? My whole motorcycle cost less than that.

[gnomedeplume]

I hate to say it, because dammit I still like 'em!

Microtech: very overrated for what they are. Nifty pocket jewelry that will cut stuff up.

I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has one of the discontinued models {UT6 with stepped handles} that I swapped out and miss.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Hell, go look at what custom Microtechs fetch these days - $4500 for a Masterpiece? My whole motorcycle cost less than that.

Don't get me started! :pissedevil:

[Mr.LaBella]

Don't get me started! :pissedevil:

Let it rip!:firedevil

[Nathan S]

Well, I like CRKs. A lot. I have some nice custom folders which I carry occasionally, but keep coming back to my Sebenzas and Mnandis. They may not be for everyone, heck, no knife is, but I sure like 'em.

I like Striders, too. I have a a PT, a TAD SnG and a TAD SMF. I don't use the SMF much, because it's just a little too big to be comfortable for me. I love the SnG, though, and use the heck out of it. Would I be happier if they cost less? Sure, but that's not a knock on their quality. If the Strider people can get those prices, then more power to 'em. In any case, you can find used Striders at fairly reasonable prices here and on other forums.

I'd have a hard time thinking of a brand that is "over -rated". I haven't bought any production knives in the last few years, aside from CRK, Strider and Victorinox (I love SAKs), so any comments I would make about other companies could be way off base. I'm reasonably happy with my customs, some more so than others of course, but can't really say that any of those are over - rated.

[Rhonda]

Sebenza, been there and did that, many times. Large, Small, Classic, Regular, Mnandi, Uumfan... had all those, and more. Only have one small Classic in the safe, these days. No need to spend that much for a plain jane pocket knife.

Bradley Alias, made by BM, has same steel, same handle material, as Sebenza, and is just as tough, costs half the price.

But until you have used, carried, and sharpened both, you might not agree. And I prefer the tip down carry of the Alias, as well.

[Boogerball]

spyderco.

[archieblue]

spyderco.

no. you. Di-unt. :manganr: :manganr: :manganr:

..loves me some spydies.. But I can only comment on the USA made ones.. which I've had good luck with.

[purpledc]

I hate to say it, because dammit I still like 'em!

Microtech: very overrated for what they are. Nifty pocket jewelry that will cut stuff up.

I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has one of the discontinued models {UT6 with stepped handles} that I swapped out and miss.

my brother just picked one of those up NIB. it was overpriced but much higher quality than the newer knives they have been making.

[dfarmerknives]

Most overated, Sebbies. I have owned 10. I have sold 10. I prefer the Bradley Alias I much better. I keep trying, but they just don't fit.

Another overated, IMHO is Busse. I just don't get it. I have had 5 or 6 over the years, and they don't do it for me, but, Jerry is making more money than I am so......:ross:

I have only owned 2 Strider small fixed blades and I thought ther were WAY too thick for the knife size. I do want to try their folders, though....

[coyotebc]

I have 1 spyderco that was given to me as a Christmas present. IMHO a terrible design.

Never owned a Strider, but wasn't impressed with the one's I handled. I may get one used one day so I can really try it out and see what it will do

[coyotebc]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/coyotebc/DadKnife3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/coyotebc/DadKnife2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/coyotebc/DadKnife.jpg

The clip does not rotate and just gets in the way

[RNST]

Most over rated "Hinderer XM 18 Flippers" - I have had four of them now and I have traded them all away. Just don't flip worth a damn and I have had four to check out and they were all the same.

Compared to other flippers I own: RJ Martin's Q36, J L Williams, Pete Carey or D B Fraley; Hinderer's just don't flip very well. Not sure why but they don't have enough momentum to flip all the way open.

A Big However:


Generally speaking the Hinderer XM 18 Folder is quite good and I have kept one folder as a potential EDC. I look at it as a 'perfect' Strider - great ergonomics, fit and finish is great, blade perfectly centered and possibly the best lock up of any knife I have owned.


Me thinks the XM 18 Flipper could do with some IKBS or similar system to fix up the flipping problem.


:becoming:

[slw]

I have to go with the Sebenza. I tried it, really wanted to like it, but it wasn't for me. Being used to the spyderco hole, yikes, my poor thumb...

[El Nasty]

My vote goes to Dalton.

[El Nasty]

My vote goes to Dalton. 2nd vote goes to Buck.

[OilMan]

Most over rated "Hinderer XM 18 Flippers" - I have had four of them now and I have traded them all away. Just don't flip worth a damn and I have had four to check out and they were all the same.

Compared to other flippers I own: RJ Martin's Q36, J L Williams, Pete Carey or D B Fraley; Hinderer's just don't flip very well. Not sure why but they don't have enough momentum to flip all the way open.
Me thinks the XM 18 Flipper could do with some IKBS or similar system to fix up the flipping problem.


:becoming:

Yep. Me too for the same reasons.

Second up would be a Yuna HARD1. I would hope they've improved by now but the one I owned and the others I've seen had terrible f/f and it flipped just as crappily as the XM because the triggers are in the same bad spot. (If the triggers were moved forward just a bit, closer to the pivot, they would open better.) On top of that when I sent mine back to Yun to fix the lockup, at great expense and time, it came back the same way and Yun explained it by saying the lockbar was touching the opposite liner as a "Feature" he was calling a "Combat Lockup". Come on now, fix it and make it right, don't make up excuses as to why the knife I just got back from being serviced after 2 or 3 months still isn't right.:signhere: Anywho, cool designs, bad f/f = overrated to me.


oil

[mfaster7]

Strider

While definitely fine knives I say they are over priced and over rated
well made, interesting lines but almost all the knives are 1/4 " S30V no more, no less.

[OilMan]

Strider

While definitely fine knives I say they are over priced and over rated
well made, interesting lines but almost all the knives are 1/4 " S30V no more, no less.

I don't think I've ever seen a Strider folder that thick.

[MiG Angel]

Most overrated knife for me?
SMF CC. Stop pin fell out after a week of not EDC'ing it. WTF? Also Emerson liner locks. POS cqc-11 would rebound open after waving. The 12 doesn't seem to have that problem.

[rackness]

SMF CC. Stop pin fell out after a week of not EDC'ing it.

I EDC a SMF CC and it has been nothing short of a tank. I own a SNG and AR but the SMF is the best of both world so to speak.

The stop pin/studs are press fit into the blade. If your pin fell out some one dropped the ball and used too small of a pin. If you contact them I have no doubt that they will make it right.

as for my most over rated knives I hate to dogpile but I would have to say emerson. thin liners, very poor lockup and blade play seem par for the course. Four different models all with the same problems is enough for me.

[MiG Angel]

Yeah every time someone talks bad about Striders I hear that. It's not that "someone will make it right", fuck that, it should have been right the first time.

I'll wait until the SnG need repairing to send both of them in.

[RNST]

I hate to say it, because dammit I still like 'em!

Microtech: very overrated for what they are. Nifty pocket jewelry that will cut stuff up.

I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has one of the discontinued models {UT6 with stepped handles} that I swapped out and miss.

I tried using a Makora to cut a banana peel. Couldn't do it.

WTF this was new out of the box without a cutting edge on it. Now I know what the real intentions of an OTF are but come on at least put a cutting edge on the tool.


Strider

While definitely fine knives I say they are over priced and over rated
well made, interesting lines but almost all the knives are 1/4 " S30V no more, no less.

I searched the Strider FAQ's and I can not find anywhere that says they use 1/4" S30V Stock. I own 3 SnG and 2 SMF and none are even close to 1/4".

http://www.badlandsforums.com/faq/UnofficialFAQ.shtml


Most overrated knife for me?
SMF CC. Stop pin fell out after a week of not EDC'ing it. WTF? Also Emerson liner locks. POS cqc-11 would rebound open after waving. The 12 doesn't seem to have that problem.

I sent a SnG CC Custom back to the original owner in a trade from HELL. Two screws had fallen out in transit. Screws were stripped and the pivot was fucked up beyond belief. I have stayed away from the CC version ever since. Regular G10 and Double Gunner Grips for me.


:onoesdevil:

[MiG Angel]

I bought mine brand spankin' new from an authorized Strider dealer, I don't know who's to blame. I'll blame you I guess :gettinghorns:

With the secondary market it's always a guessing game. RNST, that poor bastard tried to unsuccessfully disassemble it with his SAK, then unload it on to you

...but hey, you could send it back to Mick, he'll make it right...:devilzide

[Beetle]

I guess I got lucky with my two SnGs, they are the most perfect knives for me! True, spending $400 for a knife they should not have to go back to the maker.

P.S. If anyone wants to get rid of their stupid, crappy, poorly made SmF, send it my way!

[RNST]

I bought mine brand spankin' new from an authorized Strider dealer, I don't know who's to blame. I'll blame you I guess :gettinghorns:

With the secondary market it's always a guessing game. RNST, that poor bastard tried to unsuccessfully disassemble it with his SAK, then unload it on to you

...but hey, you could send it back to Mick, he'll make it right...:devilzide


+ 1 on that!

The three I own now were direct from Authorized Strider Dealers who are all stand up people IMO. I would buy off secondary market now only if I know the seller. Too much grief over that trade. I know that Strider would have made it right again but the point is the trader wouldn't adequately cover the 'spa or shipping costs' so I undid the deal.


:firedevil

[purpledc]

the most overrated knives have to be emerson. I had a chance to handle a few new and used ones recently. Just a minor spine tap sent the liner lock running home crying like a bitch. Of the knives that i wont buy simply because i dont see anything about them that warrants the price, Strider, Chris Reeve sebenzas, and Customs that dont look like customs.

[rackness]

Yeah every time someone talks bad about Striders I hear that. It's not that "someone will make it right", fuck that, it should have been right the first time.


thats cool enjoy your paperweight.

or one better send it to me for proper disposal i'll kindly get rid of the piece of shit for ya.:signhere:

[Mr.LaBella]

thats cool enjoy your paperweight.

or one better send it to me for proper disposal i'll kindly get rid of the piece of shit for ya.:signhere:

No I will! :devilzide

[rackness]

No I will!

Thumb-wrestle you for it!:sharptail:

[Worker]

I need to add that I picked up a CC SMF this week and it is perfect....:bruce:

[Mr.LaBella]

Thumb-wrestle you for it!:sharptail:

Best outta 3!!!!:cheesydevil:

[RNST]

I need to add that I picked up a CC SMF this week and it is perfect....:bruce:


And that is a SOCOM DET 1 with it too. Nice score on that one!

[YOWZER]

I'm totally new here so here I go.........I want to like Striders....bought an AR for 400.00 from a dealer. Iniatially loved it. Came shaving sharp,had an excellent hefty user feel that I was looking for. The damn things liner lock didn't hold and I recieved the worst gash in 20+ years of knife collecting. No stitches......they had to operate to repair tendons.......still I want to like them. I've checked other AR's at a couple of different dealers and it does seem that each one is a little different. None of them have been as sharp as the first one and the blade play has been a little different on each one. It does seem some are "lucky" and others aren't. As for Emerson's.....I bought a custom CQC7 about 11 to 12 years ago. The reason was because I needed a hard use knife and he advetised as such. Was the biggest POS that I have ever owned. The liners were sloppy, the blade rubbed against the liners and in truth I spent more time taking that knife apart trying to fix it than giving it hard use. Yes I did send it back to Mr. Emerson, he was not a jerk but the knife never really came back fixed. The BM CQC7's also sucked they had for the most part that Emerson "rub" as my friends and I like to say. I was able to sell that custom POS for way over double what I payed for it just because it was an Emerson. The guy is super happy,probably because he will never use it. No it was not on a forum I sold it locally where the person knows where I live. I will give Strider another chance even though hospital bills have cost thousands.....Emerson......Never....way over rated.:devilscribbled:

[Coolhand68]

For me it was Emerson as well. I had a CQC-7 that was duller than a butter knife (chisel grind) and I constantly had to re-adjust the pivot screw to get the right tension. I didn't keep it for very long.

[bigbob68]

Sebbie & Striders.























JUST KIDDING!!!!!!:firedevil

[Mr.LaBella]

I'm totally new here so here I go.........I want to like Striders....bought an AR for 400.00 from a dealer. Iniatially loved it. Came shaving sharp,had an excellent hefty user feel that I was looking for. The damn things liner lock didn't hold and I recieved the worst gash in 20+ years of knife collecting. No stitches......they had to operate to repair tendons.......still I want to like them. I've checked other AR's at a couple of different dealers and it does seem that each one is a little different. None of them have been as sharp as the first one and the blade play has been a little different on each one. It does seem some are "lucky" and others aren't. As for Emerson's.....I bought a custom CQC7 about 11 to 12 years ago. The reason was because I needed a hard use knife and he advetised as such. Was the biggest POS that I have ever owned. The liners were sloppy, the blade rubbed against the liners and in truth I spent more time taking that knife apart trying to fix it than giving it hard use. Yes I did send it back to Mr. Emerson, he was not a jerk but the knife never really came back fixed. The BM CQC7's also sucked they had for the most part that Emerson "rub" as my friends and I like to say. I was able to sell that custom POS for way over double what I payed for it just because it was an Emerson. The guy is super happy,probably because he will never use it. No it was not on a forum I sold it locally where the person knows where I live. I will give Strider another chance even though hospital bills have cost thousands.....Emerson......Never....way over rated.:devilscribbled:



Space bar + Enter :devil1:


Now, that being said...


:welcome: to THE forums, glad you made it! :cheers:

[dtownknifekid]

To me the most overated knives are gerbers, everybody outside the knife nut world cant get enough of them. They may have been good once but now they are CRAP.

[Blastmaster1972]

The Sebenza must be the most overrated knife ever...



That being said, i want more more more more!

[MiG Angel]

To me the most overated knives are gerbers, everybody outside the knife nut world cant get enough of them. They may have been good once but now they are CRAP.

One time a couple of coworkers and I were sittin', just chillin' n' shit during lunch and I whip out my folder(XM-18 at the time) to cut some shit up (food). One of them examines it and and very unimpressed he says "you should get a gerber, they make the best knives."


He leaves, then the other one turns to me and says "poor guy, Benchmades are the best."

....

[stdlrf11]

Smith and Wesson knives.

I sell a shitload of them to coworkers. They INSIST on them. I try to sell them higher quality knives for the same price, but they flock to S&W.

I can't comment on customs or high-end production knives. I've never owned a knife worth over $100.




stdlrf11

[bigphilbk7]

For me it's got to be anything by gerber that's made in china.
The cqc-7 that i bought and later found out had cheap teflon washers on the pivot, along with really thin liners.

[longbow]

Ok I like the CQC7a and b and the HD series. Thats about it for the EKI's. I currently edc a 7a and a 99 7b and the liner locks do not fail no matter how hard I hit performing the spine whack thing. They are so sharp they will easily shave or cut just about anything I care to cut. Strider is pretty decent but have only owned one and had no problems with it what so ever. Have owned a few Sebbies but sold them and didn't think they were that smooth to open so got rid of them but still kind of wish I had the moonsong I got rid of.

Ok the knives I think that suck in no particular order, and these are one that I have owned, some CRKT models of the 16,18, and 21. Most the Ellishewitz designs, the cheaper designed AUS6 models. Put it this way the S3 and the Apache's are probably the best they have done. Any S&W knife I have owned, some BOKER models. Most Kershaws but not all. Weird blade shapes and flippers, which I totally friggin hate. The Buck/Strider/Teraani model that is ats34 pse. Paper thin liner that fails miserably.

To make this simple all the hype and bull shit the makers promote. CS, EKI(You could cut through a car hood with the mini Commader if you had to), DarkOps propaganda, dumb ass names for knives etc. etc. Thats it keepem sharp

PS I forgot just about any auto knife I have ever owned, including Ox SEAL knife, a total rattle trap piece of crap, any MT auto I have owned have not been good, and that goes for any Dalton auto I have owned. They ALL had blade play no matter what. The good auto's have been MOD Dieter's have been excellant, any of the Pro Tech models I have owned have been stellar, and the Paragon XO Lite have been perfect. Tight lock up on all with no rattling. And I hate any and all neck knives(period)

[Willieboy]

I guess I would say Busse knives are overrated. I have owned them and fail to understand why they have such a loyal following.

I have never owned a Strider and won't because the cost/benefit relationship is upside down, IMO. Too many similar knives from quality makers available.

I'll never own an Emerson because so many have said they are overrated. I have also read, many times, of poor quality control. I've also read their customer service is very good but, truth be told, at the Emerson price point, I'd prefer the knife be made properly the first time.

[David1967]

Emerson, Strider and SOG (at least here in this part of the world) and CS

[Towelie]

I have 1 spyderco that was given to me as a Christmas present. IMHO a terrible design.

Never owned a Strider, but wasn't impressed with the one's I handled. I may get one used one day so I can really try it out and see what it will do



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/coyotebc/DadKnife.jpg

The clip does not rotate and just gets in the way

not to pick on you, but if that is your only experience with a Spyderco knife, i urge you to try another. i hate that fucking design too, but i really like Spyderco.

i do like the BM 630's and wished they came in tip up carry as i cannot get into the Alias designs. Other than that and a couple of others, i don't really think that Benchmades designs are worth the price myself.

I've owned a couple of Emersons and i wasn't real impressed especially after the price they demand. the wave design is awesome, although i like it better on a Spyderco Endura as it's more affordable and in my experience better quality especially when they now use steel liners in their FRN handles. i may find myself modding a g10 Endura with the waved blade. i don't think it would be overpriced as long as i sold the other knife after the transplant.

[Willieboy]

With all the criticism of Ernie Emerson's production line of knives, it amazes me Ernie doesn't get that operation cleaned up. I have never owned one of Emerson's production knives because of all the bad press regarding quality control....and there are some designs I really like, such as the banana knife and karambit. If my name was on a line of knives, heads would roll until I was producing knives worthy of respect...and the price charged for them.

[leatherman]

Gotta say it, the Swedish Mora and the Nessmuk. They've raised a cult status to rival Reeve, Busse, and Strider.

Apologies if someone mentioned them already, I dont have the time to read the entire thread. :devilcorn:

[Tom v S]

For me it are the Multitools. I always have one in my bag, and one in the car. I never, and I mean never, use them. I keep them ready, but in about 99.9 % a normal folder does the work.

Mine are two Leathermans, a wave and a normal one. Doesn't make much difference.

Just my 0.02 cent

[leatherman]

I have five of those things in my shop and only use one regularly, a little Leatherman micra to open glue cans and adjust my strap cutter. Multi tools seem to be one of those do everything but do nothing well things.

The only time I used one a lot was when I ran a car wash, that poor tool was mangled after a few months.

[rackness]

For me it are the Multitools

For me it is the exact opposite. I think multitools are very underrated. I use one every day numerous times a day. There is no more effective EDC out there. Any task I could do with on of my knives I can do with my multitool and much more.

I own many more knives than multitools they just have more cool factor but if I had to get by with only a multitool I would not be an worse off.

[Mr.LaBella]

For me it is the exact opposite. I think multitools are very underrated. I use one every day numerous times a day. There is no more effective EDC out there. Any task I could do with on of my knives I can do with my multitool and much more.

I own many more knives than multitools they just have more cool factor but if I had to get by with only a multitool I would not be an worse off.

I agree. I use my Leatherman Charge constantly/daily :bruce:

[Dale]

I think Benchmade is starting to get into the over rated catagory. Don't get me wrong, they make a lot of great knives, it just seems that the prices are starting to get high enoug, that I find it easier to justify going custom.

Now, with that said, I think the most over rated knife is.................
Custom knives from some makers.
There are some great custom makers out there who make a great knife at a very good price considering how much time and effort go into some of them.
:G3: What pisses me off, is some makers say "sure, I can get you that knife with about a 2 month turn around time" Then proceed to keep coming up with excuses delaying the delivery for about a year and a half.

I wouldn't mind a big turn around time if it's from a maker I know is backlogged, I just want to know up front.

[Willieboy]

I'm with you Dale. I much prefer a sour truth versus a sweet lie. I'd like to make purchase decisions based on honest input.

[RoadFish]

S A K

[wildman]

Well it all depends. If you are collector I guess nothing is over rated, you get what you payed for. :sharptail: You want quality and something unique. You want something you can rely on that won't break or dull when you really need it. When you buying something that you use you buy confidence. Now saying that, just remember knifes are used for penetration and cutting. What I have found out during my years is that people die from the cheepest knives around. :devilroll: You know the plain kitchen knife, grape knife or screwdriver. I work with guys that use the cheap S&W kerambit. Trust me when I say that it does inflict some hellacious cuts. :jdvomit:

With all that said, yeas I am a knifeaholic and I have several custom and standar knives. :leatherdevil :

[Mr.LaBella]

So you think kerambits are overrated? :decisions

[wildman]

I all depends if you know how to use the knife.

The kerambit is a real slicer in the saber carry. I have seen kerambits do some hellacious damage to live tissue. :sharptail:But if you are talking about penetration, only the length of the kerambit blade. :devilroll: I believe it is a great knife in the hands of a person who really knows how to use it.

This knife is used for one thing only and that is to inflict severe damage to the human body.:sharptail:

For the general public, I think the knife is truely overrated.:Devilroar: You can't slice and dice, you know cut carrots, tomatoes etc.

[leatherman]

You ought to read the history of the Kerambit, just like the Balisong, it was a tool before it was a weapon. Both are very interesting stories.

[Boogerball]

You ought to read the history of the Kerambit, just like the Balisong, it was a tool before it was a weapon. Both are very interesting stories.

how long has linoleum has been around? lol

[Mike Stewart]

I vote with Boogerball.

PsssssssT.....

There is no Evidence that the Balisong existed in the Philippines prior to the French patent on it around 1900.

I have Yet to see an antique one.

Don't Shoot the Messenger.

[Mike Stewart]

Drat !

I forgot to mention that Linoleum was invented in 1860--In England-- but-- the Best Linoleum was actually made in Scotland.

As most of you know--If it's not Scottish.......It's Crap !

[Mr.LaBella]

Fuck linoleum! I got me some clown camo :tardrule:

[Mike Stewart]

Extreme Clown Camo ROCKS.

[bootstrenf]

Gotta say it, the Swedish Mora and the Nessmuk. They've raised a cult status to rival Reeve, Busse, and Strider.

Apologies if someone mentioned them already, I dont have the time to read the entire thread. :devilcorn:

i just bought a few mora knives.....


i think that for the price, they are wonderful knives.....

actually, they are nice knives regardless of price......if you can look past the fact that they have cheap plastic handles and scabbards.....


the steel is wonderful and takes a very clean edge.....


also, the scandi grind makes them so damn easy to sharpen.....

there are two main brands, erickson and frost....they merged to form "mora of sweden" but you can still tell which company makes which particular model.....


the 911 is made by erickson and the 840 clipper is made by frost......


i prefer the erickson in every way......the erickson has a stronger, longer tang, has a better handle, and has a better finish, has a better sheath.....it is also noticably sharper......


if anyone out there is considering a mora knife, get the 911......much superior to the standard 840 clipper model.......


erickson 911 on the left, frost 840 on the right:
http://www.ragweedforge.com/911.jpghttp://www.ragweedforge.com/860-mg.jpg

[leatherman]

I vote with Boogerball.

PsssssssT.....

There is no Evidence that the Balisong existed in the Philippines prior to the French patent on it around 1900.

I have Yet to see an antique one.

Don't Shoot the Messenger.

I used to have a copy of the oldest patent available for a "two handled utility knife" on my computer before it crashed, I even have the little knife with the patent number stamped on it. I dont remember the date. Anyone here know how to search patent numbers? I'll get the knife out later today.

EDIT: I found the knife, finally, that little bugger is easy to lose in a knife box. The number on the knife is only six digits long! Patent # 229706 Pics coming when I get a second to sit still.

The oldest Philippine balisong I have is WWII era, thats the oldest I've seen, as it coincides with the military's first contact? or was that WWI?

So the Kerambit wasnt a tool for cutting grassy materials? I had no idea, my books are worthless. :devilzburn:

[leatherman]

i just bought a few mora knives.....


i think that for the price, they are wonderful knives.....

actually, they are nice knives regardless of price......if you can look past the fact that they have cheap plastic handles and scabbards.....


the steel is wonderful and takes a very clean edge.....


also, the scandi grind makes them so damn easy to sharpen.....

there are two main brands, erickson and frost....they merged to form "mora of sweden" but you can still tell which company makes which particular model.....


the 911 is made by erickson and the 840 clipper is made by frost......


i prefer the erickson in every way......the erickson has a stronger, longer tang, has a better handle, and has a better finish, has a better sheath.....it is also noticably sharper......


if anyone out there is considering a mora knife, get the 911......much superior to the standard 840 clipper model.......




Its not so much the knives themselves as it is the mystique surrounding them and the Nessie. Seems that to be a true outdoorsman you must own a few of each.

I dont own a Nessie, but I do have three or four traditional Scandi's. The plastic handles on the Mora is a breaker, they look like cheap Gunsu to me.

[bootstrenf]

Its not so much the knives themselves as it is the mystique surrounding them and the Nessie. Seems that to be a true outdoorsman you must own a few of each.

I dont own a Nessie, but I do have three or four traditional Scandi's. The plastic handles on the Mora is a breaker, they look like cheap Gunsu to me.


plastic looks bad, but it works well on the knife....anyways, it should be all about the steel!!!

moras cut like the dickens!!! because the performance significantly exceeds the pricepoint, i can give moras a pass in terms of aesthetics.....


actually, i was considering sending a few moras to mike stewart to get rehandled.....something affordable though, it just wouldn't make sense to spend $50 to modify a $10 knife......

also, i was thinking about notching a tiny little choil with a dremel to all of them......the edge goes all the way back to the handle and it is difficult to sharpen the that part of the blade...

[BlackNinja]

I guess I would say Busse knives are overrated. I have owned them and fail to understand why they have such a loyal following.

I have never owned a Strider and won't because the cost/benefit relationship is upside down, IMO. Too many similar knives from quality makers available.

I'll never own an Emerson because so many have said they are overrtaed. I have also read, many times, of poor quality control. I've also read their customer service is very good but, truth be told, at the Emerson price point, I'd prefer the knife be made properly the first time.


INFI KICKS ASS! I beat the shit out of some of mine (SARsquatch, BATAC, HR and a couple of others) and had them shaving sharp after about 5 minutes on my Sharpmaker. The price is high, no doubt, but in my honest opinion Busses' are friggin great! I think Cold Steel is way over-rated and their customer service is a joke! Their knives suck, flat out suck! Maybe it’s just me but my manual Microtech folders had some serious lock issues (although I don’t expect much out of liner-locks). However, I love my MT autos.

[kalama]

i have to say busses sold my 4 knives jus not impressed with them

[leatherman]

i have to say busses sold my 4 knives jus not impressed with them

:devilzeek Trying to figure out what you said here, did Busse sell your knives or did you sell them, or did you sell them to buy a bus?

I wanna see pics of the new bus! :ronl:

[Ironwolf]

I've read the first few pages:if this has been covered,pay me no mind...I've been havin' guys from the neighborhood and work bring me their old,tired,broken and poor knives for years and years...Mostly production,as I find the guys who buy custom shy away from :Cold Steel(WAAAY overpriced),Spyderco(can't remember how many broken tips I've re-profiled),Leatherman (knife blades),Kershaw,and Gerber...pretty much in that order.Kershaw and Gerber have come back up a bit,but both kinda went into the toilet for awhile there(early-late '80's).As for kitchen knives,the one time king of the North American kitchen(in terms of value and sales)was Henckel...now,even their "top shelf" shun line is utter fucking garbage:I was just in a House of Knives,looking at a $450 6" chef's knife (san mai),and the fit and finish was worse than the FIRST fucking knife I ever built!!!(from an old Nicholson metal file)...so,I'd have to say THE WINNER for WORST VALUE in a knife (regardless of category) goes to Henckel!

[Ironwolf]

i have to say busse's:sold my 4 knives,just not impressed with them

there,Leatherman,better? :jdwink2:

[kalama]

in the past 2 years i have been selling them off only sitting in the closet.didnt care to use them the feel of the handle it tears up my hand,the weight of the blade getting older looking for lighter,got to get your own sheath,an i think my other blades hold a better edge than infi ,the price now i can get a cheaper blade with a killa warranty that can do the same thing a busse can,an the price was right to sell got good money for them,i had 6 all together 2 that were stolen they were my fav.the steel heart in A2 got it about 15 years ago may be longer still got the original brochure for it in mint condition,but this is my opinion,i do like the org. satin jack but i aint going to spit out $6-7 hundred thats crazy..i probably lose it or break it...like i said this is my opinion an dont want every one jumping on my a$$ its happen before..aloha

[kalama]

iron wolf i agree with you on that one,me an my pals cater on the side they pull there henkels out talk about price,but i have a $20 f.dick that can out perform there blades any day ,we have challenged many a times,there blades are way overrated

[Ironwolf]

yeah man;I got a bud who worked in the Hotel Vancouver(one of the top chefs there),and his are all handmade customs;says that Heckies have been shit for years.However,as for Busse's,I haven't put my Warden thru' it's paces yet,but dude;I've done sick shit with my Howler LM that would make other knives cry just to see...Ever think you could BEAT on the spine of a knife with an all steel,28 OZ Estwing framing hammer?Pound it on the butt and drive it thru 3/4" thick paper-faced forming plywood?...with only minor cosmetic damage as a result?...I have,more than once... http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/wolf-rat_2006/Hard%20working%20Rat/SSPX0261.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/wolf-rat_2006/Hard%20working%20Rat/SSPX0495.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/wolf-rat_2006/Hard%20working%20Rat/SSPX0496.jpg

[kalama]

thats crazy, i think they dont hold an edge well as i want them too,but they are no doudt indestructible ,a busse might not be for me but busses are definitely for you bro...killa pics,,aloha

[Mr.LaBella]

thats crazy, i think they dont hold an edge well as i want them too,but they are no doudt indestructible ,a busse might not be for me but busses are definitely for you bro...killa pics,,aloha

Variety is the spice of life. My spice is Tony Chachere! Yours may differ, but that IS what makes The JD great, this thread could have proved nuclear on some other forums.

I fucking love this thread, personally!

[ARNOX]

I don't have/test Emerson but I have a Point Guard from CRKT and it's good in hard use:thumbsup:

[leatherman]

there,Leatherman,better? :jdwink2:

lol! YES! Punctuation is your friend. :evilness:

[kalama]

now rats thats different i had one, a mojo traded it stupidest thing i ever did that sr101 thats some good stuff,an the price is not outragest ,yet

[bootstrenf]

yeah man;I got a bud who worked in the Hotel Vancouver(one of the top chefs there),and his are all handmade customs;says that Heckies have been shit for years.However,as for Busse's,I haven't put my Warden thru' it's paces yet,but dude;I've done sick shit with my Howler LM that would make other knives cry just to see...Ever think you could BEAT on the spine of a knife with an all steel,28 OZ Estwing framing hammer?Pound it on the butt and drive it thru 3/4" thick paper-faced forming plywood?...with only minor cosmetic damage as a result?...I have,more than once...

http://home.teleport.com/~rasputin/ImageFiles/BeavisButthead.jpg

huh huh, he said, "pound it on the butt"......huh huh....

[Ironwolf]

heh,heh...if I could find a woman who could take the rough service my Howler takes,I'd marry her in heartbeat!:devilscribbled:

[The General]

Emerson.

Never even seen one that had a good liner lock or no blade wobble.

Just love the look and function of the Commander, never found one I could trust. Liner locks are not the lock to have doubts about.

[leatherman]

I had a 2001 Commander once, didnt take long for me to let it go, dangerous knife, especially for a lefty. You could push down on the blade and watch the liner lock move back and fourth. :ropeman:

[JMForge]

For those who said Gerber is overrated, how can that be? From what I have seen, it has pretty much been common knowlege that they have been shitty since Fiskars took over. As anyone, like myself, who had pre Fiskars Gerbers.

As for the most overrated kife, I will say ANY "tactical" folder. The very idea that people sell a "hard use" knife that intentionally breaks in half, especially to people who don't really have significant restrictions on carrying some type of fixed blade, is kinda funny.:demented:

[Travis B.]

need to keep this thread going. I think most Kershaw knives are overpriced. The ones that are $40-80 for 440a. Whats up with that? Also the combat elite $300 knives with 440c. WTF is that about. Shit look at the new Boker Catalog they have a "New" F/S dagger with 440c for around $400? That sum bitch better kiss you

[Tracker]

I guess I've been lucky.

All the knives from other makers that I own are super. I can't think of a knife I've bought that was less than I expected.

Mike.......................................

True sign of Class in a Man, from a Knifemaker this is Beyond Class!

[dw2016]

Emerson. No Doubt.

[MiG Angel]

Emerson. No Doubt.

their frame locks are ok but their liner locks are way over hyped.

wait a minute, didn't they disco their hd line because of production cost?

things that make you go hmmm

[aj1985]

Well I'll let you know about the emerson after I get a folder again, but the La Griffe kicks ass. I had a persian a while ago and really loved the blade and knife, but it was a bit to big for me.

I have two sebbies and I have grown to appreciate them more and more. One of the most perfect Edc's every made. Small classic lisa's pick.

gotta get to work, see yah guys
aj

p.s Spyderco is Ugly and I Love em

[MiG Angel]

I received that SMF CC back and guess what?
The stop pin was loose a couple of days later. No I didn't try to hammer it out.


Most overrated knife for me?
SMF CC. Stop pin fell out after a week of not EDC'ing it. WTF? Also Emerson liner locks. POS cqc-11 would rebound open after waving. The 12 doesn't seem to have that problem.

[markd]

My vote goes to Dalton. 2nd vote goes to Buck.I've never met a really good Buck knife. Steel is usually decent thanks to Bos, but the fit and finish is extremely subpar. Turned me off factories. Better off spending more for a custom.

[lsheldon]

Definitely Strider. And for Claymore, before he gets his undies in a bunch again, yeah I own one. Hell I own three of them.

For expensive as they are, you would think they would treat their clients better. One of mine has a G10 slab that is banged up. I emailed and asked em how much to replace it. The answer back was $150.00 plus shipping. WHAT? A hundred and fifty dollars to replace a piece epoxy & fiberglass. You would think they were grinding and heat treating thier G10. I hate to think what they would charge to replace a blade. Maybe more than the 450.00 I paid for the knife.

The third Strider knife I bought was my last.

[Kinnear Knife]

As much as I'd love to be able to afford to buy one, just to have it, the one knife maker who seems to be waaaaayyy up there is Loveless. Does anybody actually have a Loveless? And if so, is it worth the big, no, make that giant, bucks people ask for them?

Everything I read about Mr. Loveless suggests he is a knife maker for the guy who needs to use his knife for cuttin'. But I saw a Loveless on e-bay for $18,000.00. Now, I'm just a regular guy, but that seems a wee bit over the top. No disrespect to Mr. Loveless intended, as I said, I'd love to have one of his knives... to me his knives are like the Holy Grail. Sadly, I'm not sure I'll even see a real one, let alone ever be able to afford to buy one. I'm NOT saying his knives are over rated, I just want to hear what others have to say.

Have a good one.

[nyeti]

Simple business question as the same issue keeps coming up.....what should the 100 &#37; made in the U.S. Strider profit margin be. I know exactly what it is , but I am curious for the "they cost too much crowd" think Strider should make percentage wise.

I get this all the time on the gun side that I know nothing about. Some features and processes are very different and some times little things cost a lot. With this said, when people make stuff for professional users, then certain standards must be met and they are often expensive. I had a good friend leave the private sector and join a very tip of the spear government world heavily involved on the front line of the war on terror. We were both deeply involved in Strider world, yet he was flat stunned at who is ISSUING them and where they are being used. The fact is Strider isn't building that SMF for you, it is built for someone using it in combat in the worst places on earth. Sure they make some civi collector stuff now, but it is built to the same standard, and then requires that a bunch of extra "pretty and cool" factor stuff goes into it.
Lets look at the HK 416 rifle as a good analogy. They cost the government users about $1300, and the upper alone goes for $4-5000 in the private sector when they pop up. If all of a sudden HK started selling them to everyone for $1300, some guy on the internet is going to say his DPMS works just as good for shooting cans and the HK (that as to meet the standards of several of the most elite units in the U.S. military) is overpriced and over rated. So is it or isn't it?

[Mike Stewart]

I'm trying to get my head around your post.

I make 100% U.S.A. made knives.

I charge what I charge.

I make them the same no matter who they are sold too.

Who a knife is designed to sell TO is not relevant to it's price.

It is what it is and nobody gets to tell me what to sell it for or how much money to make.

Who uses the knives and what they do with them is also not relevant to the price of the knife.

It is Absolutely nobody's Business- but mine- how much I make on a knife.

Same for Mick and Dwayne.

It is nobody's business and nobody has the right to tell them how much to make or not make.

I strongly feel that nobody has the right to even know how much a maker - any maker - profits on anything.

What customers have the right to do is to buy the product or not buy the product and they should use their own standard on worth and value.

The product should stand on it's own merits.

From what I hear Strider knives were still selling hand over fist so there are plenty of people out there that feel that they are more than worth the price.

They don't need Defending.

[ghosthellz]

im pretty new at this but from what ive read i would say the infidel otf.

400$ for an under par otf?

[knife_junky]

Try again the 3300 is $450 and the Bk version is $465, the real pisser is you cant stab anything with it...



im pretty new at this but from what ive read i would say the infidel otf.

400$ for an under par otf?

[ghosthellz]

Try again the 3300 is $450 and the Bk version is $465, the real pisser is you cant stab anything with it...

holy shit i thought 400 us thats insane it looks good but is pretty shabby

my next otf is going to be a excalibur.... i think amc are the up and comers just my opinion.

[knife_junky]

I have one and the quality is all there, its sharp and really can be purchased for around $260ish so it probably worth it but at the MSRP no fucking way.. Sharp as piss and top notch BM quality again just not designed for stabbing, a jab into some thick cardboard will send it off its track and need a reset..

[gzb]

Try again the 3300 is $450 and the Bk version is $465, the real pisser is you cant stab anything with it...


Sharp as piss and top notch BM quality again just not designed for stabbing, a jab into some thick cardboard will send it off its track and need a reset..


OK, I'm cornfused.

Are we talking about doing the "stabbing" with the blade locked?

The DE blade on that BM is really only good for stabbing. What's the problem...?

[ghosthellz]

OK, I'm cornfused.

Are we talking about doing the "stabbing" with the blade locked?

The DE blade on that BM is really only good for stabbing. What's the problem...?
me too if the blade is locked and you cant stabb through cardboard then it is junk!!

[ghosthellz]

there is videos posted all over youtube of the infedal not beign able to pierce a piece of paper from the closed position.. when all other otf's can??? so this tells me the spring is weak from the beginning and will fail faster then the rest even a 40$ clone lmao

[gzb]

there is videos posted all over youtube of the infedal not beign able to pierce a piece of paper from the closed position.. when all other otf's can???

Some OTFs might be able to do so but so what? None were designed to pierce anything while deploying.

It's the lockup that counts. Strong springs can result in blade *bounce back*. The MT CFO2 had this problem...

http://www.jerzeedevil.com/gallery/files/4/1/cfo_001_602068.jpg

[nyeti]

I'm trying to get my head around your post.

I make 100&#37; U.S.A. made knives.

I charge what I charge.

I make them the same no matter who they are sold too.

Who a knife is designed to sell TO is not relevant to it's price.

It is what it is and nobody gets to tell me what to sell it for or how much money to make.

Who uses the knives and what they do with them is also not relevant to the price of the knife.

It is Absolutely nobody's Business- but mine- how much I make on a knife.

Same for Mick and Dwayne.

It is nobody's business and nobody has the right to tell them how much to make or not make.

I strongly feel that nobody has the right to even know how much a maker - any maker - profits on anything.

What customers have the right to do is to buy the product or not buy the product and they should use their own standard on worth and value.

The product should stand on it's own merits.

From what I hear Strider knives were still selling hand over fist so there are plenty of people out there that feel that they are more than worth the price.

They don't need Defending.

I know they don't need defending, but I always love this kind of stuff on the net. I am not in anyway planning on divulging the Strider profit margin, but I am curious as to what the folks who think they are getting ripped off think the margin should be (mainly because I was floored when I talked to Duane about it). I have been around the Strider guys since the days of drawing stuff out on steel on the floor of a shared shop with very few tools. There is a big difference between that and the idea of fullfilling both government and civilian commitments with only a couple of people building the folders. This is a California based company, paying living wages to their folks, and all the associated business expenses plus premium materials. That was a big step up from the days of Mick and Duane being it.

In regards to who a knife is made for does matter. This stuff is often geared towards a set of end users. They have to perform to that end users tasks. Often times that is more than what many buyers need. This is fine, but don't bitch about it. I'll give a couple of examples. I know a guy who does a lot of work in bad places. While trying to pry up a floor of a dwelling to escape hostile fire, the blade broke. He figured out right then and there what level of strength and material he needed in future blade selection and why premium materials are used. In the case of the Strider DB's. These have been issued to to many military and L/E helo flight crews for the main task of having a small easily cared knife to extract from a crashed aircraft (that usually has some sort of fire involved to add to the excitement). I remember the guys in my old helo unit giving me crap for how much I spent on my DB that I carried daily. They stopped giving me crap when one of our crews crashed and the crew was upside down in a burning helicopter and only lived because they were rescued by a couple of good samaritans as they were unable to cut themselves free from their belts (no knives) and pry themselves out. Guess what got issued to every flight crew member within a couple of weeks? That is probably not what most folks use the knife for, but there is a cost involved with getting those knives to that level with any sort of consistency. I am sure that Mike uses A2 heat treated specifically to what his end user base demands. Might not work for everybody, but knives should be task and user designed. Hey, some stuff is designed to put in the safe. Anybody EDC'ing and doing any hard-core work with a gold inlaid Ron Lake folder........

Different knife-makers realize that they have different expense and living issues and tend not to be the ones throwing this stuff around. My post was directed at those who don't. I see this crap on the bubble gum gun forums all the time. "A Colt AR is a rip-off, I could build just as good of a gun for $500.00 from gunshow parts". Okay studs, do it. No one is stopping you from being a genius. Get er done and move on.

[Uncle_Jarvis]

Busse Combat is Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy!!! overrated !!!

I could not even chop through this steel piping in less than a min... pffffft.crap'olla ..:onoesdevil:

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff284/UncleJarvis/th_SJ.jpg (http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff284/UncleJarvis/?action=view&current=SJ.flv)

[knife_junky]

During deployment the infidel can barley pierce paper, you can stab with it but certainly not a steel drum..:cheesydevil:

[ghosthellz]

During deployment the infidel can barley pierce paper, you can stab with it but certainly not a steel drum..:cheesydevil:

ya... but it is a nice looking otf good piece for a display for shure

[leatherman]

Busse Combat is Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy!!! overrated !!!

I could not even chop through this steel piping in less thank a min... pffffft.crap'olla ..:onoesdevil:

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff284/UncleJarvis/th_SJ.jpg (http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff284/UncleJarvis/?action=view&current=SJ.flv)

:internetpolice::katbonk::lynchmob:

[Uncle_Jarvis]

:internetpolice::katbonk::lynchmob:


:telletubbies::domodance::domo::wolfy::moon:

[nyeti]

I had another thought for Mike in reference to his excellent post. You said in your post that the price of the knife would be the same no matter who it was made for. I was thinking about this, and wonder if the United States military came to you with a bid for 5,000 of a particular knife, that had to meet a certain spec., would the price be the same if I called and wanted one? Just curious.

[Parker]

I had another thought for Mike in reference to his excellent post. You said in your post that the price of the knife would be the same no matter who it was made for. I was thinking about this, and wonder if the United States military came to you with a bid for 5,000 of a particular knife, that had to meet a certain spec., would the price be the same if I called and wanted one? Just curious.

Excellent question - same knife, same specs as a production knife? or one (okay, 5,000 of them) built to a USG spec?

I make the assumption that if USG wants it built to their specs, design and prototyping would have to be figured into the cost.

[bootstrenf]

I had another thought for Mike in reference to his excellent post. You said in your post that the price of the knife would be the same no matter who it was made for. I was thinking about this, and wonder if the United States military came to you with a bid for 5,000 of a particular knife, that had to meet a certain spec., would the price be the same if I called and wanted one? Just curious.



Excellent question - same knife, same specs as a production knife? or one (okay, 5,000 of them) built to a USG spec?

I make the assumption that if USG wants it built to their specs, design and prototyping would have to be figured into the cost.

wouldn't the unit cost be a lot less for an order of 5000 blades, than if you bought one individual blade??? not sure if i worded that correctly, but basically i mean that buying in bulk would mean cheaper unit cost......


so i would assume that it would be more expensive for you if you called and wanted one......

[Parker]

boots, you'd think that, but it still costs more in ANY USG financial disclosure I've ever seen to buy a specific widget, per unit, than if you and I called bark river, or a distributor.

And USG has always been willing to pay more per unit, and that does not appear to be changing either.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

During deployment the infidel can barley pierce paper

That is possibly the most idiotic criteria for "quality" in an OTF that I've ever heard.

And I have owned both a BM Infidel and a Piranha Excalibur. The Benchmade was MILES ahead in quality over the Piranha.

In fact the BM is the only OTF I've ever owned that I regret selling. This includes a variety of Microtechs, Daltons (single action, of course), and Paragons (still have one--a new one--but probably not for long).

[bootstrenf]

boots, you'd think that, but it still costs more in ANY USG financial disclosure I've ever seen to buy a specific widget, per unit, than if you and I called bark river, or a distributor.

And USG has always been willing to pay more per unit, and that does not appear to be changing either.

thanks for the info.......


maybe this is the reason why our country is in debt up to our ears......

[Mike Stewart]

I had another thought for Mike in reference to his excellent post. You said in your post that the price of the knife would be the same no matter who it was made for. I was thinking about this, and wonder if the United States military came to you with a bid for 5,000 of a particular knife, that had to meet a certain spec., would the price be the same if I called and wanted one? Just curious.

I don't do just one so I really can't answer that directly.

You say you have a good working relationship with a Maker - I assume it is Strider.

You know that those knives are not made one at a time.

I am no different--I don't make most knives one at a time.

I usually make someplace between 300 and 1000 of each model at a time.

Pretty Sure Strider Does too.

As Example:

Our Bravo-1 was made to Exactly what the folks at Force Recon wanted.

The Price is the Price.

We have made thousand and thousands of them and all kinds of folks have bought them that are not in the Military too.

My Point is that they knife costs x to make no matter who it is for.

We need to be Specific here.

Someone in the Military can ask for the knife to have certain Features but I set the specs on what I make--I'm sure Mick & Dwayne do too.

We are the knife experts.

Folks in the Military are Not.

They want it to do something--it is our job to make a tool that will do it.

We get to choose how the tool needs to be made to accomplish that task.

I have never seen a government Agency actually Write the Mil Spec.

They are not Qualified to do that.

They are qualified to Test Stuff until the Spec is Found.

We - as designers - are the ones that Actually Write the Spec for them in the End.

If somebody is a Tank Commander he can want his Tank to do something.

He is not Qualified to Write a Spec or to make a Tank.

It is up to the Tank Manufacturers to take that request and then find a way to accomplish it.

Knives and Guns are exactly the Same.

Designers take the request and the Spec is made after the Tool or Gear or Tank is Tested and passes.

The Final Spec is Written After - we -The Designers - have made them.

I Certainly hope you are not inferring that Bark River or Strider would make a product that was somehow inferior just because that one product was Not specifically designed for the Military.


Mike

[nyeti]

Negative Mike, actually the opposite. You guys are generally making stuff better because of who its going to. I am trying to be careful with my wording so "internet" tone doesn't become an issue. I have actually seen that anything that goes out to a large government bid process will be cheaper than normal due to volume, but a big variable is how much went into design and prototype and development work (knives aren't Aircraft Carriers, but this still can be a factor). Again, I am far more at home on this subject in the firearms world than in the knife world. I saw several posts here talking about how "overrated" various things were and the one little part of the knife world I have a bit of insight into is the Strider world, only because I have been a customer since the early 90's and have seen the business develop since then. I see this all the time in the firearms debates, especially in regards to the AR-15 type rifles, and figured the knife stuff seems to have some similarities.

While I am not very familiar with Bark River first hand, I can say I have heard nothing but good things about the company. I would be equally "tweaked" if someone listed their knives as overrated when compared to some overseas knock off that looked okay on the surface, but was unable to perform when put the tasks the knife was actually designed for. I very much appreciate Mike's input to get a wider viewpoint.

[Mike Stewart]

Just for Fun I went back and quickly read this thread from the Start and the real conclusion to me is what a number of us have stated many times--Worth is Totally Subjective to the Individual.

I know that I tend to look at knives from a user Standpoint.

Many others look at knives from a Collector Standpoint.

We had a Thread a while back about the Blade Being Totally Centered in a Folder when it was Closed.

Same thing happened--some folks were horrified if the blade was not perfectly centered and I actually had to go and check some of mine to see if they were centered or not - because it did not interfere with the use of the knife--I honestly had never even looked.

Most of our Likes and Dislikes are pretty subjective.


Mike

[nyeti]

Just for Fun I went back and quickly read this thread from the Start and the real conclusion to me is what a number of us have stated many times--Worth is Totally Subjective to the Individual.

I know that I tend to look at knives from a user Standpoint.

Many others look at knives from a Collector Standpoint.

We had a Thread a while back about the Blade Being Totally Centered in a Folder when it was Closed.

Same thing happened--some folks were horrified if the blade was not perfectly centered and I actually had to go and check some of mine to see if they were centered or not - because it did not interfere with the use of the knife--I honestly had never even looked.

Most of our Likes and Dislikes are pretty subjective.


Mike

Ain't that the truth. I have to laugh as some of the most "collectable" knives i own were carried a lot. I was into the Emerson stuff when nobody cared. I remember walking up to see Ernie at a show and was carrying a hand contoured handled black oxide CQC 8 and an original (from the batch actually made for Marcinko's guys) black oxided Rogue warrior. Ernie got a huge kick out of that as the collectors would have had a total coronary. Many of my carried a ton Striders were prototypes or hold some collector value. Heck, my most beat, most abused, spray painted (with Krylon no less, and without a template....) and actually carried a ton fixed blade is a hand ground original Mantrack.........somewhere, a collector just killed a puppy:devilzeek.

I like user stuff, and I like stuff that works without failure. At this point, price is totally subjective.

[purpledc]

I have one and the quality is all there, its sharp and really can be purchased for around $260ish so it probably worth it but at the MSRP no fucking way.. Sharp as piss and top notch BM quality again just not designed for stabbing, a jab into some thick cardboard will send it off its track and need a reset..

any otf fired into thick cardboard with disengage the blade and prevent lock up, no otf if designed to fire through or into anything. Now if your taking an infidel and stabbing it into something while its locked open and are disengaging the blade then your knife is defective as its design is such to where this shouldnt be possible with out self destructing. I though would not recommend stabbing anything with an infidel either. I did and horrible amounts of blade play followed. The infidel looks nice and is a neat little knife but for me is a high cost letter opener and nothing more.

[clint b]

CS knives from non-knife folks. I worked with an LT who snapped 2 of the bigger tantos and still swore by them. I think he liked prying with them and snapping the blade in half.

[Parker]

CS knives from non-knife folks. I worked with an LT who snapped 2 of the bigger tantos and still swore by them. I think he liked prying with them and snapping the blade in half.

Buy him a Stanley wonderbar and some sort of online IQ test. Oughta cost you all of $10 inclusive. Retards break knives regularly. The rest of us try to learn from the experience. :tard:

[MiG Angel]

I've posted here from experience, not because of subjectivity.

When I purchased my first custom, I paid a price. A price I believed was fair. When I payed a little more for a strider, I still believed it was fair. That's the price of the item and that's what people are willing to pay and I'm willing to pay. However, when I receive a knife that costs more than a custom and is faulty, sent back to the manufacturer and returned back with the same problem, that is a problem not based on perspective. My emerson experience was the same with the weak liners and the wave feature. Weak liner prevented the knife from being locked fully when waved and bounced back and cut my fingers. Maybe I've been spoiled by CRK quality, but a folder that costs more than $350-$400 be it mid-tech or custom, should be free of any defects. When I say those knives are overrated I mean it. Beauty is subjective not quality.

Lately I've been carrying an RJ Martin Q36 and I couldn't be happier with the quality, function, and looks.

[Miyamoto Musashi]

Emerson - Hands Down. The worst POS knife I've ever touched in my life. I've had Chinese gumball machine knives with better action. I can understand letting a bad one get through every now and again, but my CCQC-14 has a lot more than just one problem.

The liner lock BINDS shut, and it takes two hands and INSANE pressure to get it to release.

The blade is SO FAR off center, and wobbles, and scrapes against the liner - where there is like twice the thickness of the blade's worth of extra room - meaning this was WAAAAY off center.

Their fans. I was a member of a certain forum that is in cahoots with this (joke of a) knife company for over five years. I posted a SERIOUS question asking about Emerson quality control. Within three minutes, they Rained Hellfire down on me and deleted my account and labeled me a troll. All because I said something that wasn't in COMPLETE PRAISE of their crappy-ass product. They banned my five year account in a second.

Overrated is putting it lightly. They really do give, "Made in America" a bad name. They are a complete disgrace to our country.

I watched their Lottery on youtube just now - The only way he can sell knives is to rush the buyers through - so they don't get to inspect the knives.

[CRONIX]

Emerson - Hands Down. The worst POS knife I've ever touched in my life.

ha ha ha i totally agree:devil1:

[Awake]

Ditto on the Emerson, I purchased many at the beginning, sold them all, poor QC, shitty liner lock, horrible sharpening. Strider at some level (maybe because of their price) but they are way many times better than Emerson.

[Worker]

Emerson - Hands Down. The worst POS knife I've ever touched in my life. I've had Chinese gumball machine knives with better action. I can understand letting a bad one get through every now and again, but my CCQC-14 has a lot more than just one problem.

The liner lock BINDS shut, and it takes two hands and INSANE pressure to get it to release.

The blade is SO FAR off center, and wobbles, and scrapes against the liner - where there is like twice the thickness of the blade's worth of extra room - meaning this was WAAAAY off center.

Their fans. I was a member of a certain forum that is in cahoots with this (joke of a) knife company for over five years. I posted a SERIOUS question asking about Emerson quality control. Within three minutes, they Rained Hellfire down on me and deleted my account and labeled me a troll. All because I said something that wasn't in COMPLETE PRAISE of their crappy-ass product. They banned my five year account in a second.

Overrated is putting it lightly. They really do give, "Made in America" a bad name. They are a complete disgrace to our country.

I watched their Lottery on youtube just now - The only way he can sell knives is to rush the buyers through - so they don't get to inspect the knives.

It wasn't that you got a bad knife that got you booted it was how you went about it. Don't poop in the swimming pool... come on dude.

I have bought in my life, so many knives, it hurts. If I took all the money I have lost flipping knives in the last 10 years I would probably be worth more than Bill Gates.

That said. I must have been lucky, all of the Emersons I have owned over the years have been good knives. Never had to send one back. I still carry a custom 8 from time to time and it is wicked.


I have had to send some knives back, some brands that are revered around here had to be sent back, or did not meet my satisfaction. I took it up with the dealer or manufacturer.

I did not run around yelling

Here Yee
Here Yee

Being the town fucking cryer.

It is a knife not a heart transplant.

I know full well Ernie would have made it right.


Chinese gumball machine... thats probably closer to your level.

[Chris Daigle]

OK, what the hell, I'm posting. Especially after seeing the lists for Emersons.

I'm surprised. Now, I will say I've only handled two productions and one custom. All were sent to me by a soldier. One as a gift and the other two that needed touching up on their edges, clip adjustments etc.

Major Jim sent me a Commander because he believed in the design so much. This was to be my beater. And I've beat it time and time again.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but the knife can surely take some serious abuse. I'd personally like a more acute grind on the bevels but then again I like a thin edge.

YMMV

Chris

[leatherman]

Emerson - Hands Down. The worst POS knife I've ever touched in my life. I've had Chinese gumball machine knives with better action. I can understand letting a bad one get through every now and again, but my CCQC-14 has a lot more than just one problem.

The liner lock BINDS shut, and it takes two hands and INSANE pressure to get it to release.

The blade is SO FAR off center, and wobbles, and scrapes against the liner - where there is like twice the thickness of the blade's worth of extra room - meaning this was WAAAAY off center.

Their fans. I was a member of a certain forum that is in cahoots with this (joke of a) knife company for over five years. I posted a SERIOUS question asking about Emerson quality control. Within three minutes, they Rained Hellfire down on me and deleted my account and labeled me a troll. All because I said something that wasn't in COMPLETE PRAISE of their crappy-ass product. They banned my five year account in a second.

Overrated is putting it lightly. They really do give, "Made in America" a bad name. They are a complete disgrace to our country.

I watched their Lottery on youtube just now - The only way he can sell knives is to rush the buyers through - so they don't get to inspect the knives.

Gee whiz Myamoto, quit holding back so much and tell us what you really think! :shockedevil:

[BlazenGem]

One of the worst companies I have experienced with is Cold Steel. Lots of bladeplay, and cannot compete with a knife twice as cheap.

[Miyamoto Musashi]

I know full well Ernie would have made it right.



Quote removed by Mr.LaBella

It is Emerson Fans that made me disgusted with the brand. I don't want to be associated with such losers stuck so far up a knifemaker's ass.

[Worker]

Quote removed by Mr.LaBella

It is Emerson Fans that made me disgusted with the brand. I don't want to be associated with such losers stuck so far up a knifemaker's ass.

You sir need help. You are a troll and have made my ignore list. Goodbye.

[Uncle_Jarvis]

Emerson - Hands Down. The worst POS knife I've ever touched in my life. I've had Chinese gumball machine knives with better action. I can understand letting a bad one get through every now and again, but my CCQC-14 has a lot more than just one problem.

The liner lock BINDS shut, and it takes two hands and INSANE pressure to get it to release.

The blade is SO FAR off center, and wobbles, and scrapes against the liner - where there is like twice the thickness of the blade's worth of extra room - meaning this was WAAAAY off center.

Their fans. I was a member of a certain forum that is in cahoots with this (joke of a) knife company for over five years. I posted a SERIOUS question asking about Emerson quality control. Within three minutes, they Rained Hellfire down on me and deleted my account and labeled me a troll. All because I said something that wasn't in COMPLETE PRAISE of their crappy-ass product. They banned my five year account in a second.
Overrated is putting it lightly. They really do give, "Made in America" a bad name. They are a complete disgrace to our country.

I watched their Lottery on youtube just now - The only way he can sell knives is to rush the buyers through - so they don't get to inspect the knives.


Well, I guess the verdict is that Emerson flat out sucks... Good to know..

Damn , you got banned that easily??..
Whoever moderates that forum should be burned at a stake and then cannibalized.:madaddy: I really do despise forums like that.. :ssad:

[Boogerball]

spyderco lol

[Uncle_Jarvis]

Anyone have opinions about Himalayan Imports ?

I have seen posts of the blades completely chipping out and such. There seems to be a large fan base tough.

On the other hand I have read how badass they are, especially for the price.

I was thinking about buying an Ang Khola to beat the shit out of.

Just curious....

[nyeti]

Emersons are another area where I have some experience. At this point I have owned over 75 customs (with the exception of my Rhino, all were carried), and a bunch of production stuff. I have had a few bad ones, and mostly good ones. So are they perfect, no. Are many good, yes. Keep in mind that I ISSUED over 250 P-Sarks into my P.D. to mostly non-knife people and we had no problems with any of them. Some required tightening screws after awhile and basic regular maintainance, but overall, they were fine. Have I had a couple with poor liner fit, yep. Did they get taken care of by Emerson, yep.

Now, with that said.........as far as Emerson fans and the ass sucking retardation that has come from developing a collector cult following rather than a user following (which is how it was in the old days), is why I rarely carry my Emerson stuff anymore.

[leatherman]

Quote removed by Mr.LaBella

It is Emerson Fans that made me disgusted with the brand. I don't want to be associated with such losers stuck so far up a knifemaker's ass.

Ease up, step back from the computer and think, personal attacks are not tolerated here and your skating on the edge.

Jarvis, dont feed the .......... to be determined .........

[Uncle_Jarvis]

Ease up, step back from the computer and think, personal attacks are not tolerated here and your skating on the edge.

Jarvis, dont feed the .......... to be determined .........


I did not really think dude was trolling, just passionate about disliking that brand.. .

Regardless of the following, I think it is more relevant to talk about the actual knives and not the people.

[Miyamoto Musashi]

Now, with that said.........as far as Emerson fans and the ass sucking retardation that has come from developing a collector cult following rather than a user following (which is how it was in the old days), is why I rarely carry my Emerson stuff anymore.

I am just passionate about my hatred for Emerson Knives and ALL that goes along with them: the t-shirts, the hype, the hats, clips, lanyards, skulls, the "loyal" followers of the "cult", etc.

I'm sure some of their knives leave the factory in satisfactory shape, but for a company to REGULARLY let LEMONS into the End User's hands is beyond unacceptable - yet their followers continue to support their false idol.

No personal attacks. If you enjoy eating dinner in a pig's slough, more power to you.

I've just never encountered a company that I despised EVERYTHING about, from their marketing, to their followers and apparel.

[Miyamoto Musashi]

I did not really think dude was trolling, just passionate about disliking that brand.. .


Thank you, Uncle Jarvis! I will watch my sharp tongue around here, though, out of respect - on the most "freedom of speech" forum there is.

[Miyamoto Musashi]

Ease up, step back from the computer and think, personal attacks are not tolerated here and your skating on the edge.

Jarvis, dont feed the .......... to be determined .........

Why? Because I express a passionate opinion that differs from yours? So you resort to your only ammo? Name calling? Just after you warn me of "personal attacks"? Hypocritical, no?

[Uncle_Jarvis]

Why? Because I express a passionate opinion that differs from yours? So you resort to your only ammo? Name calling? Just after you warn me of "personal attacks"? Hypocritical, no?

Ohhhh , it's ok to have a sharp tongue and be opinionated.

Letherman is cool , I just think he feels there is a lack of constructive criticism in a few of your posts...

[Kinnear Knife]

Why? Because I express a passionate opinion that differs from yours? So you resort to your only ammo? Name calling? Just after you warn me of "personal attacks"? Hypocritical, no?

Big Rig.... From what I've seen people on this site are very tolerant of mistakes, and will forbear temper tantrums, and simply point you in the right direction. And they are pretty kind about it...

Whenever I get a bit peeved about something somebody has said (not here) in a forum, I just click the close button and come back later. Very seldom is it worth getting your titties twisted about. Anyhow, I think everybody sees you don't like that particular brand, so good on ya, now we can all move on. Not trying to slag you, just suggesting there's a lot of cool stuff here, no need to make your stay short. I'm a new guy here too, and I think it's a great site!

Have a good one!