People like this

[Pumpkin]

How in hell is it that we someone could do 5 years in jail (which isn't long enough) for starving an animal, but the sick fucks we have in this world today, don't seem to have a problem with doing it to a human fucking being. What the FUCK? This shit makes me fucking sick. This woman's feeding tube was her only survival and her husband decided over the people that gave birth to her, that, the tube that kept her should be removed. Ultimately starving to death. How ironic that she has a large insurance plan for when she dies.

:atyou: :atyou: :atyou: :atyou: :atyou: :atyou: :atyou: :atyou:

Fuck you sick fucks (http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2005/03/19/85609.html)

[Pumpkin]

Meanwhile, Republican congressional leaders said in a statement that they planned to work through the weekend to try to save Terri Schiavo's life.

Just though I'd add that :love:

[Trixie]

See, originally having read P's post, I thought there was this poor woman stuck in a house somewhere with a feeding tube who was getting fucked while he husband pimped her out. Having read the article and having re-read her post I realize the errors in my ways. Next, while you seem to have a holy value placed on the value of life, I would argue the quality of life. The woman is brain dead, she is a vegetable.

While yes, a dead body is a dead body and you could conclude it is murder, she has a terrible quality of life. By all means she may not even know she has a life. She is as good as dead, to be blunt. More importantly, that is hard on the people around her that knew her as she once was and now she is just a rock with a tube. I will have to disagree with you on this one P and say I understand where the husband is coming from. Legislation is already moving naitonally towards new assisted suicide laws, this just plays into that type of thought.

[borinquen]

wow,imagine that?
republicans are trying to save a defenseless woman!
they're probably trying to draw attention away from the missing WMD's :-D

[borinquen]

let's just say the rumor is that the husband played a part in turning her into "just a rock" :poke:
he also stands to benefit financially from her death.

[Trixie]

Laf, spare me this clear cut republican and democrat bullshit. The whole lot of them are up fro reelection this November, their platforms will change. "Save a defenseless woman," she is a vegetable, what about quality of life? So because you have life that makes it good or worth living. She just lays there, with a tube in her mouth. If I get like that, I want them to pull the plug on me. I value quality of life over the presence of life.

[Pumpkin]

Well first of all, I have never seen a vegetable react to their mothers voice. They say she has cried, laughed, and even smile to her mother and fathers voice.

This is fucking ridiculous. Many would say that animals are useless. I love my dogs with every beat of my heart. But I can be realistic, they are not a contribution to society. But they are to me. They provide me with comfort, love, and companionship. They cannot feed themselves, I have to. They can not speak, but they don't half to. I can see their expressions on their little puppy faces. The same as this woman, a HUMAN BEING. She provides the same comfort to her parents and other loved ones the same way my "children" do. I am not comparing this woman to my dogs, but she should get the same consideration and rights as the law upholds for animals. She is LITERALLY being treated like a fucking dog. And it makes me sick.

[Pumpkin]

Trixie, please remember that I am not trying to be political here. I threw that quote in for laughs. Unlike SOME people, I do see lots of colors, and that includes grey.

[Trixie]

You cannot make that sort of a comparison. You need to evaluate this at large. Is it just this particular case, because you know the specifics of it, or do you hold your position for any vegetable, reactionary or not, family or not? People get attached to the specifics, it is easier to argue, but you have to look at the precedent it sets at large. Just like abortion. You shoot a woman who is with child you get a double murder, but if a woman has an abortion it is not murder. *Legally. Things are changing. But if a woman is raped, should she be forced to keep the child for 9 months (give or take adoption)?

Do you think all humans in all cases should be granted the right to life and allowed to continue to live no matter what? About quality of life? Above any pain or suffering to the person or family? Because this really needs to be a clean sweep, you cannot pick and choose based on the specifics. If a terminally ill patient is going to die in less than 6 months you grant them assisted suicide, but you red flag a vegetable? Something to thing about.

[borinquen]

Laf, spare me this clear cut republican and democrat bullshit. The whole lot of them are up fro reelection this November, their platforms will change. "Save a defenseless woman," she is a vegetable, what about quality of life? So because you have life that makes it good or worth living. She just lays there, with a tube in her mouth. If I get like that, I want them to pull the plug on me. I value quality of life over the presence of life.

i see recognizing sarcasm isn't your strong suit-
also,how do you know what that woman is feeling?who are you to determine "what is worth living".
your arrogance is showing.
what if she is screaming out to be heard but no sound is coming out?
you never know...

[BenDibble]

they do this ALL the time. why this case has made it so big beats me.I think it was because of the huge battle between her parents and her husband. but i am not taking any sides to this.

Just saying that they do this all the time.

[Pumpkin]

Do you think all humans in all cases should be granted the right to life and allowed to continue to live no matter what? About quality of life? Above any pain or suffering to the person or family? Because this really needs to be a clean sweep, you cannot pick and choose based on the specifics. If a terminally ill patient is going to die in less than 6 months you grant them assisted suicide, but you red flag a vegetable? Something to thing about.

No, I don't think that people should be put to death in any way, by anyone's request. Whether they were born retarted or helpless. I have been arguing this point since I was on the O.F.F

I would never agree with "assisted suicide". It is not the way the world is meant to work. You live until you do your time, they same reason I have never agreed with the death penalty. :hitler:

[Trixie]

Most days, arrogance is not smug enough B. And yes, what if, what if her mind is racing and her thoughts are screaming, but she cannot do anything about that? Good. I wonder how frustrating that would be. To have everyone stare at you like a like vegetable and say how they wish she would just speak or move or be like she was, and she lays there thinking, "but I can." I still maintain my stance on quality of life.

[borinquen]

if you ever become brain dead,i'll be waiting in the wings with one of these...
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000CEVOH.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[Trixie]

No, I don't think that people should be put to death in any way, by anyone's request. Whether they were born retarted or helpless. I have been arguing this point since I was on the O.F.F

I would never agree with "assisted suicide". It is not the way the world is meant to work. You live until you do your time, they same reason I have never agreed with the death penalty. :hitler:


Good P, then you are just as selfish as the people who want to end their pain and suffering sooner.

Have you read the laws on assisted suicide. It takes a least a month, 3 different doctors, witnesses, at least 1 written request, and 2 other requests in verbal or non verbal forms. How about the DNR laws? The Do Not Resuscitate laws, where people can be asked not be be brought back to life if they go out. Basically, what you are saying, it that you do not get to decide what you do with your own life. That conflicts with other people's morals and beliefs. You will live, not because you want to live, but because it negatively effects those around you, so suck it up and you'll die soon enough.

[Trixie]

if you ever become brain dead,i'll be waiting in the wings with one of these...
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000CEVOH.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg


You know, you say that, trying to make a point I must imagine, and that is what I have been getting at. If I ever get like that, I don't want to be around. You would be fullfilling my wishes.

[Pumpkin]

I think you know too much about the rules of the law and not enough about the rules of life. I think college has gotten to your heart. Maybe I am a dreamer, but if I am...I'd like to keep it that way, hopefully I can attract more people people like that

I am your friend, not your debate partner. Don't be such a pitbull.

[Trixie]

Haha, rules of life? Try natural selection, darwinism. Humans are the close to the only, if not the only member of this circle of life, who insist on keeping around the weak, sick, and straining. We think, and develop these ideas that life is precious, that each life has glorious possiblity and that everyone is entitled to it. Fine. Good on us, but then we make all these rules to keep the life around, for as long as we possibly can.. selfishly I might add. Great, so humans have this amazing thought, and with this thought comes a ridicuolus amount of selfishness, not selflessness. Because what kind of world would it be if we realized that at large, one life is not significant?

I may be hardened and cold by most respects, I may know too much about the laws, and the facts, and the history, I may have less of a spiritual center, but I look to the reality of things, because after all, at the end of the day, reality is what I have.

[Pumpkin]

If reality is what you have at the end of the night, then yes you certaintly have been hardened and cold. And I almost pity you for it. At the end of the night, I have more than reality and the fact that I realize this, makes me smarter than anyone whos knows all kinds of laws, facts and history.

[Komodo]

I filled out my DNR form a long time ago, and it's in my medical files. It's not a question of "IF" , but WHEN the time comes, I choose not to be a burden on my family. I'm also choosing the level of "Quality of Life" that's acceptable to ME. I do NOT want to spend the last remaining moments of my life in a hospital, hooked up to a bunch of machines!
Life is presious, but when you can no longer enjoy that life, let it go.

I watched my father go thru a LONG, and painfull death. That will never happen to me, or anyone that I truly care for!

[Trixie]

see?! http://jerzeedevil.com/forums/images/smilies/064.gif

[howiesatwork]

I can see terminating life support for someone who has written down what they want to happen iif they are in a situation when a machine is the only reason they are alive.
In this case, "life support" is food and water.
After this woman's husband got the settlement in the malpractice suit, all therapy, which he promised to have provided with the money, ceased.
It was a "I've got the money, now you can die" action.
Why is she on a feeding tube? Because someone said "don't try and see if she can eat, because she might choke and die.
Now she faes two weeks of starvation...
Her "husband" is Not her closest living relative. That would be her mother, followed by her brother and her father, all of which are willing to take care of here for the rest of her life, and see if terapy will improve her condition. Her husband is only related by marriage, not blood, and only wants here to die. Maybe he was responsible for her being in the condition she is in...:idunno:

At what point do we say, well, if a person is "this much not normal" do we just kill them? Paraplegic, quadraplegic, downs syndrome?
There was someone we all know that did this in the past, wasn't there?
Adolph...:hitler:
In addition to the 6M Jews he exterminated, there were some 8M others...
Retarded people, hanicapped, homosexuals, Christians, and other groups were exterminated aslong side the jews. Try not to forget that.

For those that think this case is about quality of life, do some more reading on it in this one case.

[Pumpkin]

see :poke:

[Trixie]

that proves nothing. http://jerzeedevil.com/forums/images/smilies/hitler.gif

[borinquen]

keep drinking the kool-aid :welcome:

[Clydetz]

I already told my family members if I'm going to be a vegetable, take me for that last, long, lonely ride to the Vet.

[007]

I think you know too much about the rules of the law and not enough about the rules of life.

:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

[Pumpkin]

I win :poke:

WASHINGTON - President Bush signed emergency legislation sent to him by Congress early Monday to allow Terri Schiavo's parents ask a federal judge to prolong their daughter's life, capping days of emotional debate over who should decide life and death

[swiftfoot]

I win :poke:

not so fast, lets see what the fed court says. just let her die

[Pumpkin]

Wow, thanks for that insightful and original opinion :thumbsup:

[swiftfoot]

she would make a really good organ donor

[007]

So would you except for the brain. :idunno:

[BenDibble]

here is the real kicker i found out today. (and what they never say on the news) the reason she is in the coma is because she tried to kill herself. She was anorexic and then did a drug over dose, had a stroke and/or a heart attack and lapsed into the coma. now think about it, do you think she wants her lifed prolonged anymore?

[Pumpkin]

here is the real kicker i found out today. (and what they never say on the news) the reason she is in the coma is because she tried to kill herself. She was anorexic and then did a drug over dose, had a stroke and/or a heart attack and lapsed into the coma. now think about it, do you think she wants her lifed prolonged anymore?

I knew this, yes. Do you think someone smiling and laughing at the sight of loved ones wants to die? Please, don't jump into grown up conversations until you think about what you're saying ;-)

[Wolfgang]

Why is anyone wasting their breath on this? She's brain dead she's not going to magically wake up. She would NEVER survive on her own, why would any sane parent want to keep their kids alive on life support as a brain dead vegetable for the rest of their lives?

Pull the fucking plug and then end it quickly.. waste the attention, money and resources on someone who's living. The state has no right to interfear in this, and her parents are holding on to a dead child. She has the right to live, but she should also should have the right to die peacefully in these circumstances. I don't even understand why this case is getting so much attention, it must be the media's lack of important propaganda to show.

[Pumpkin]

die peacefully in these circumstances

Huh?? Starving to death is your idea of dying peacefully? :idunno:

It is getting so much attention because the way this woman would die, is starving to death. Could you imagine starving to death? Watching your own body cave inside itself and stinking of rotting flesh? It's disgusting and it's unhumane.

[wes]

Would she even know that she was dying though?

[swiftfoot]

she would die of dehydration way before starvation, and she would be on so much pain medication she wouldn't feel anything. Not that she would feel the pain without meds seeing that she has no cerebrum.

[Pumpkin]

She might not be aware what is happening to her, but of course she would feel it. There is no way around it, this woman would be starved to death. No one has a right to stick their fucking god damn democratic twisted head into it. Her mother pushed her out of herself and therefore, that should be who decides. If these people are willing to pay for it, then who's fucking buisness is it??? The hospital is getting the money they want, so what does it fucking matter. She is aware of her sorroundings and the people who care for her. Brain dead people do not smile at their loved ones and react to hus and kisses. Her parents want her alive and don't want to see her starved to death.

[swiftfoot]

she would not feel it. she is on to much drugs. also what seems to be her responding to outside stimuli is nothing more than reflexes that are being processed by her spinal cord not her brain.

[Pumpkin]

Nope, sorry, she would feel it darling. Pain meds do not stop the feeling of your stomach shrinking. Let's be realistic here :thumbsup:

[swiftfoot]

Nope, sorry, she would feel it darling. Pain meds do not stop the feeling of your stomach shrinking. Let's be realistic here :thumbsup:

I would think that she already dosen't feel anything due to her being brain dead. Also there is pain medication that will stop much worse pain than starvation. Her cerebral cortex, the part of the brain that processes pain among many other things, is totally gone. So how can she "feel" pain?

[BenDibble]

I knew this, yes. Do you think someone smiling and laughing at the sight of loved ones wants to die? Please, don't jump into grown up conversations until you think about what you're saying ;-)

do you have any other documented proof of this other than the parents "saying" they once saw it? Trust me, people in extreme grief will see whatever they want. i have seen it from grief strucken people at funerals, and this is basically no different.

[consumed]

This whole situation is insane! It is no one's business but her husbands. He will not benefit from this, any "insurance" money will be taken for her 15 years of medical bills. Having made this decision for my father, let me assure you she will not "starve" to death. She will die of dehydration within 10 days. She will feel no "pain". Morphine, if needed, will kill any pain, and a brain dead person feels no pain. How can the government, much less us, pass any kind of judgement on this man or situation? If it were me laying there, even if I did respond occasionally, I know I would be pissed if they didn't pull the plug!

Bryan

[Wolfgang]

My point is... Would she survive naturally on her own like this? No.... The wonders of medical science in keeping a vegetable for 30 years so the brain dies? Wow... who cares. Uthineza is sometimes a good thing. There never going to wake up... why keep them in a state like that... why starve them to death?

edited to add:

The only real reason why any doctor would want to keep them alive like that is for what goes into their pockets for taking care of her. That sickens me more then putting someone out of mortal misery.

[Pumpkin]

Well, we could go on and on about this..unfortunately for those who believe starvation is a peaceful way to die and that this is unhumane, we will always have good people like our president, who don't find things that are twisted and sick, humane like other politcians do. :atyou:

[Wolfgang]

Well, we could go on and on about this..unfortunately for those who believe starvation is a peaceful way to die and that this is unhumane, we will always have good people like our president, who don't find things that are twisted and sick, humane like other politcians do. :atyou:

Bush is humane? BWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA... Pumpkin... that's hilarious. I don't think starving someone to death is a humane way of killing someone, but she would never naturally survive on her own in a vegetative state. No politician is humane, there here to get votes and "campaign contributions" and money for their own pockets. It's only for PR, get real.

No form of authrority can be "humane", there is always a hidden agenda.

What do you suggest? We end her misery or we keep her alive in it for years listening to the doctors who only want to make an easy buck off her.

[Pumpkin]

I lose (http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2005/03/22/87875.html)

[007]

He will not benefit from this, any "insurance" money will be taken for her 15 years of medical bills.

Glad you cleared up how there's no financial benefit to the murderer, here. :rolleyes:

[Guillermo]

All this crap is sick. I would not want to live like this woman is but I would could never decide for someone I love. I think that the parents should have more say than the husband. I don't know much about this woman and whats all going on but as a parent I could not see starving one of my sons to death unless that was his wish. My grandmother was on a machine a few years ago and I thought just pull the plug. My uncle came in from Texas and changed my mind. Life is never something someone should have to make a decision about and he refused to. If this is about letting someone die who can't take care of themselves we could do this to millions on welfare. Could they feed themselves without a check? Think about it.

[cutty]

If I am ever in her shape, we should run a lottery. Who will put the plug

in my brain. Or I could pay you to do it. See me in a year.

[BenDibble]

weird, the song "moms like her choose Jif, chooose jif..." popped into my head. Obviously this lady did not choose Jif because Choosy moms choose Jif, not prolonged life of thier brain dead daughters! duh, geeze i can not believe i didn't see it before. so clear and simple.

[BenDibble]

If I am ever in her shape, we should run a lottery. Who will put the plug

in my brain. Or I could pay you to do it. See me in a year.

I'll do it for you, except it might be considered a conflict of interest :bendibbl: Just don't come to my funeral home.

[bart-1]

Modern marvels of medicine!!?? I would hope plenty of my friends and or enemy's would have snuffed me out with a pillow way before this!!

[Clydetz]

I gave orders to Clyde's vet that if that ever happens to me, 'put me to sleep' humanely! Now I just have to hope the vet doesn't die before I do.

[tubtar]

if you ever become brain dead,i'll be waiting in the wings with one of these...
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000CEVOH.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
Man , if my life is ever reduced to her current state , just use a bullet and get on with the wake. There are a lot of folks spouting a lot of words over this , from she is cognizant to she is a breathing pet rock ( my exaggerations ) , but that don't look like living to me.
God bless her and give her peace.
J.S.

[Bobert]

Modern marvels of medicine!!?? I would hope plenty of my friends and or enemy's would have snuffed me out with a pillow way before this!!


I don't know, I think some of your friends here might keep you around as long as you were still fuckable!


Bobert

[SuperD]

Please let her rest in peace soon. Let her go to the light.

[LONE WOLF]

she only has 20% of her brain working, and even that is not working correctly.
80% of her brain is liquid, resulting in hydrocephalus.
They should let her go, IMHO.



Robert

edited to add: the doctor they interviewed said their is no chance of her improving.

edited for spelling :-D

[LONE WOLF]

Terri has passed on.

Rip



Robert

[WT351]

Terri has passed on.

Rip



Robert

+1

Prayers that she has found a better place.






Different situation but, I watched my grandfather deteriorate over the course of 7 years with Alzheimer's. Whether his mind was gone at the point that his body ceased being able to function properly or communicate purposefully is beyond me. But I grew up very close to the man and he would have rather died than "live" his "life" like he did the last 5 years.

These topics are always very touchy. I can't say for sure what the right answer is. Someday I'll find out. For now, appreciate what and who you have and don't ever forget that life...and really living....is precious.

[SuperD]

Rest in peace Terry Shiavo.

[Pumpkin]

:atyou:

:atyou:
:atyou: