oldest debate in gun forum history [Archive]

Spufnik

01-07-2007, 03:49 PM

Mr. Admit, Sir. I was wondering since you found your way into the gun section and posted such an old link that we have all seen several times, do you also,

Just decide one day to take your entire TV set apart? Like every part, wire, diode etc.? Of course you don't, cause you do not know shit about TV sets!!

Now please enjoy the gun section but remember treat it like your TV set that you know nothing about!!

If you need to get a new section going so you can post more and about things you am smart with, may I suggest a Dildo-Towing section!

Thanks for your time.
Robert
__________________

Funniest quote evar!!!!

And it is HK of course, nobody likes to shoot with a 2x4 in their hand :madaddy:

Tinysd

01-07-2007, 03:53 PM

I dug that post up when Bob died and it brought tears to my eyes from laughing. I found it so funny that I called Ron in the middle of the night to laugh at him.

Damn I miss him!!!

TheBadGuy

01-07-2007, 04:35 PM

I bought a Glock, then I bought an HK, then I bought another HK.
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While both are nice weapons my vote goes to: GLOCK

SZiehr

01-07-2007, 05:31 PM

Glock? Oh yeah, you mean those tupperware guns. I prefer the real steel of a 1911.

The General

01-07-2007, 05:59 PM

Fired both... I still prefer the Glock

24thMED

01-07-2007, 06:20 PM

Like my Sig better than my glock. (There I admitted I own a glock).

GogDog

01-07-2007, 07:14 PM

I have an HK and shot a glock last weekend. My vote goes for HK.

Peter Lezard

01-07-2007, 07:25 PM

Glocks are cool, but I love my USP.

I'll take a .280 over the .270, lever over bolt, will SOMEBODY at Savage arms please remove there head from there ass, and bring back the 99!!! (but singles are cool) .308 over 06 (yeah I know I'm gonna burn in hell for that one :blahblah: I've heard it before) M14 over the M16. .45 over 9mm (but I still want a Secamp, and one of those 8 shot 627 Smiths)

Oh and Ropeman, my RWS in .177 Rocks!!!!:bwah:

The General

01-07-2007, 07:57 PM

9mm is nice in an SMG... but as a pistol round? .45 is better, but I would always go for a .40 or preferably a 10mm round given the option in a handgun.

I know there are many arguments about recoil and the ability to rapid fire rounds accuratly under pressure, but I want a handgun round that will really do some damage when it hits. Anything larger than a 10mm and you are into the Magnum range rounds and lets be honest... while large frame autoloaders and wheel guns are fun, they are not EDC carry items for most people.

I really can't think of a better economical and reliable package right now than a Glock in 10mm. Easy to shoot and fits my hand. Those H and K guns are very very nice... don't get me wrong... but for me its a Glock.

BoerBoelGuy

01-07-2007, 08:44 PM

COTTON vs. WAX....How to keep your Powder dry:bang: :jdwink2:

mrbieler

01-07-2007, 09:41 PM

Glock vs 1911 has been going on for ages.
9073

Guillermo

01-07-2007, 09:58 PM

Glock for my as far as the plastic guns but I'd rather have a P7 any day if it has to be a 9mm. Love that cartoon.

Frank_White

01-08-2007, 12:47 AM

Anything larger than a 10mm and you are into the Magnum range rounds
the full power 10mm loads are equal to a .41 magnum-

I really can't think of a better economical and reliable package right now than a Glock in 10mm. Easy to shoot and fits my hand.
which glock in 10mm,the model 20 or the 29?
the 20 uses the same frame as the model 21 and it's grip is noticeably bigger than the full size HK usp in .45 ACP.
the subcompact 29 is the same size as the model 30 and i would hate to fire full power 10mm loads out of a gun that won't let you get a full hand hold(pinky hanging off the grip):devilzeek

RXX

01-08-2007, 01:16 AM

Colt vs. Clones

"If it aint a Colt then its just a copy"! HORSE SHIT!

I love my Colt 1911's, but they aren't the only brand 1911. There are many excellent 1911's out there such as Kimber, Springfield, S&W, Nighthawk, Wilson, Ed Brown, Les Baer, etc................:bang:

Slick

01-08-2007, 02:10 AM

CZ-75 :madaddy:

Wolverton

01-08-2007, 03:51 AM

Fired lots of Glocks, 9 mm, 10 mm, .45 acp, .40. Fired one HK, USP custom in .45 acp. My vote goes to HK by miles and miles.

HorizonSon

01-08-2007, 04:55 AM

It's hard to beat the good ol' OG plastic G17!:thefinger ..... As far as caliber; either the 9mm or .45acp (though my wife has problems with the .45acp). Just don't give me a gun chambered in that PC POS .40S&W:jdvomit:

The General

01-08-2007, 09:30 AM

the full power 10mm loads are equal to a .41 magnum-

which glock in 10mm,the model 20 or the 29?
the 20 uses the same frame as the model 21 and it's grip is noticeably bigger than the full size HK usp in .45 ACP.
the subcompact 29 is the same size as the model 30 and i would hate to fire full power 10mm loads out of a gun that won't let you get a full hand hold(pinky hanging off the grip):devilzeek

The 20 model... I can't imagine firing a 29 with a full load 10mm!:devilzeek

Wolverton

01-08-2007, 11:40 AM

I fired the 10 mm Glock 20 with very "spicey" handloads. It is not a gun for the squeamish. Very snappy recoil, didn't move off target much.

RXX

01-08-2007, 11:47 AM

I love my 20, and you are right Wolverton, it stays on target. I think with a few small mods to the 29, it shouldn't be all that bad with hot loads. :bang:

Ropeman

01-08-2007, 01:16 PM

glock vs. hk:devilzeek

someone fill me in.:madaddy:

On any other forum, Ron, you'd be a troll, here you are like a marvelous paragon of what we all aspire to. Are you proud?

Grim-Sniper

01-08-2007, 04:03 PM

Fired lots of Glocks, 9 mm, 10 mm, .45 acp, .40. Fired one HK, USP custom in .45 acp. My vote goes to HK by miles and miles.

Yea what he said:ssmile: :ssmile: :spin: :spin: :bang: :bang:

Frank_White

01-08-2007, 04:11 PM

Fired lots of Glocks, 9 mm, 10 mm, .45 acp, .40. Fired one HK, USP custom in .45 acp. My vote goes to HK by miles and miles.

+100:firedevil

wes

01-08-2007, 09:28 PM

Funniest quote evar!!!!

And it is HK of course, nobody likes to shoot with a 2x4 in their hand :madaddy:

I remember reading that post when it went up. I think it was the first time I've had to go out of the room and try to stop laughing. I had to stay out for a good while.

tubtar

01-08-2007, 10:39 PM

We all knew Bob was a funny fuck...........but to have my eyes leaking from laughter neigh on 5 months after he left us is remarkable.
I missed that one the first time around.
Kimber B.T.W.
J.S.

Mahg

01-09-2007, 01:05 AM

There's a reason i love my Glock more than any other pistol i own. (Including a couple Colts, SAs, Taurusii, among others.)

The reason is simple. After around 2 months of intensive firing (Weekly shooting competitions, and a couple classes.) my Glock is uncleaned, filthy as hell, unrusted, and utterly reliable.

For what you get, i don't think you can beat the value of a Glock.

It's not pretty, and doesn't feel good? So what! You're shooting it, not fuckin' it!

HorizonSon

01-09-2007, 01:19 AM

...It's not pretty, and doesn't feel good? So what! You're shooting it, not fuckin' it!

:bobert:

I almost pissed my pants when I read that..... How true!

Mr.LaBella

01-09-2007, 05:43 AM

On any other forum, Ron, you'd be a troll, here you are like a marvelous paragon of what we all aspire to. Are you proud?

I love you man! *hoists light beer*

SinCity

01-15-2007, 10:31 AM

TheBadGuy

01-15-2007, 11:26 AM

It is indeed the dumbest safety setup EVER

Now this is true. The Glock safety mech. is dependant upon the user NOT pulling the trigger. With the gene pool consistently getting "dumbed down" allot of folks require additional fail-safes so if they DO pull the trigger, it still wouldn't go off.:bwah:

mp5man1

01-16-2007, 12:33 AM

Been shooting HKs for years. They get my vote. I have never owned or shot a XD but the guys that I know that use them for work like them as well.

To be fair the Glock shooters really like them.

For comp shooting I would give it to a 1911 or a clone of one.

texguy

01-16-2007, 08:52 AM

[/I] no contest, ill take the hk over the plastic gun everytime!:madaddy:

The General

01-16-2007, 04:23 PM

Glock safety is just fine. If you pull the trigger it go bang! If thats too dangerous, don't have a round up the pipe.

"Specshull" operators, special gun. There is a difference.

Next someone will think of a neck holster with the barrel of the gun pointing right at your head in the kydex...:jdevil:

Now that would be Specshull...

Lemmy

01-16-2007, 08:02 PM

In my hand the Glock just feels better.

I must say, they both are ultra reliable. I think its just a matter of preference. You have to evaluate feel, options, etc. You can't go wrong with either.

Wolverton

01-17-2007, 10:44 PM

Yep, Glocks, Sigs, the XD, HK, Beretta, CZ, (on and on) they are all good.

Jagman

01-17-2007, 11:11 PM

Call me old fashioned but I like a pistol with a hammer you can actually see and even manipulate if the fancy takes you!!!!!!
Jagman
http://images19.fotki.com/v358/photos/1/139782/2222886/P2KMiltsparks-vi.jpg

Dr Mabuse

01-17-2007, 11:24 PM

for the glock fans...

Lemmy

01-18-2007, 02:17 PM

Jagman, what's that holster? That's a nice rig! :fonz:

TheBadGuy

01-18-2007, 04:16 PM

Jagman, what's that holster? That's a nice rig! :fonz:

I would wager its the best IWB they make IMO, a Milt Sparks Versa Max II

GogDog

01-18-2007, 04:35 PM

I shot a Glock .40 over new years. After going through a few mags, I noticed the slide was slightly knicking right hand's knuckle behind the thumb. I guess I can't hold a Glock the same way I hold my USP.

Jagman

01-18-2007, 07:00 PM

I would wager its the best IWB they make IMO, a Milt Sparks Versa Max II

Badguy is bang on, its a left hand hooker by the way.
The waiting list is about 12 weeks but I found this for sale on hkpro and jumped on it,
Jagman

HorizonSon

01-19-2007, 12:22 AM

Personally, I think a 'safety' on a gun is STUPID!!!... What does one need a safety for???... BTW; I'm meaning an external safety, that is...:jdwink2:

Dr Mabuse

01-19-2007, 12:39 PM

in a branch of the US military the saying is... "My mind is the safety on this weapon"... of course because a "gun" sits on the deck of a battleship or a mobile platform...

tubtar

01-19-2007, 01:01 PM

as Gunny Hartman would remind us............ " This is my weapon , This is my gun. This one's for fighting , and this one's for fun. "
Truer words were never spoken.
J.S.

Mr.LaBella

01-26-2007, 04:48 AM

Glock..............or HK? :poke:

SinCity

01-26-2007, 10:16 AM

as Gunny Hartman would remind us............ " This is my rifle , This is my gun. This one's for fighting , and this one's for fun. "
Truer words were never spoken.
J.S.

I :fixed: it

http://www.moviesounds.com/fmj/myrifle.wav

Tinysd

01-26-2007, 08:59 PM

Glock..............or HK? :poke:

It is now both for me. I pick up my USP 45 next Sunday. :punish:

Wolverton

01-27-2007, 01:01 AM

It is now both for me. I pick up my USP 45 next Sunday. :punish:

SSSWWWWEEEEEETTTT.

I won, screw all you other queers.

Peter Lezard

01-27-2007, 07:49 AM

It is now both for me. I pick up my USP 45 next Sunday. :punish:

You da man!! Mine has over 6,000 rounds through her without so much as a hickup....Enjoy!!!

PIC

01-27-2007, 08:43 PM

I gotta agree with Tiny on this too. it's BOTH Glock and Hk for me also.

first was the original Glock 17 .9mm. then on to G-21 .45cal.
now, it's the fairly new Hk USP45CT. Very smooth! comes
w/ all the trimmings. carry case, 3-clips, etc. :wes:

Ropeman

01-29-2007, 11:13 PM

So, what did we decide?

Mr.LaBella

01-30-2007, 05:46 AM

So, what did we decide?

I know I know!

you are :ghey: if you do not have one of each! :idea:

Parker

01-30-2007, 10:04 AM

I know I know!

you are :ghey: if you do not have one of each! :idea:

Bag that shit, Ron, XD's feel like a real pistol, not some roll-cap firing toy! :evilness:

langston302

01-31-2007, 12:26 PM

ahhh screw hk screw glock and screw 1911s.........BROWNING HIGH POWER BABY!!!!!!!! now all the other are great i own one of each....but the BHP out shines them all.....:spin:

stevetexas

01-31-2007, 01:39 PM

To make a Glock safe, they should just install the same kind of safety they use on double action revolvers.

mac

01-31-2007, 03:53 PM

H&K is cool, glocks are kind of dorky ;)

The General

01-31-2007, 04:04 PM

If I could have either... I would be a very happy man!

Anyone who has one inna UK and wants to sell it to me? Nah... thought not!:jdwink2:

Parker

01-31-2007, 04:18 PM

General, get me a mailing address and.......:bang: :bang:

Mr.LaBella

12-27-2008, 09:42 AM

:bump: because we have Mac vs. PC in the technical area :jdwink2:

Ken Brock

12-27-2008, 10:05 AM

Glocks are great if you don't mind shooting yourself.
Nice safety setup on the trigger.

I was listening to the NJ news on the radio not long ago. "in two days two cops accidently shot themselves" and I thought to myself I bet they were glocks. "apperently both officers accidently shot themselves with a Glock service pistol"

It is indeed the dumbest safety setup EVER

no sir, it's quite intelligent

how many safeties are on a revolver?

it's not a hardware issue, it's a software issue

if you are trained to keep your finger out of the trigger guard, you won't shoot yourself

but training is much more expensive than having Glock make a stiffer trigger spring (like happened in NY)

Glocks are a good solid weapon. I've owned quite a few guns including some HKs

I owned a P7 and thought it was quite over rated. I've had some USPs and the mags are wayyyy too expensive, the triggers are horrible and the balance is a bit off. I think they are great guns but I sold everything I owned except for Glocks as I think it was smarter to stay with one trigger/operating system for my handguns

I've been to armorer school and have plenty of parts for my Glocks and could rebuild them from the ground up (if I ever needed to)

as a firearms instructor I've witnessed many students have negligent discharges

it's happened with EVERY brand of autopistol that the students have carried

it's happened with revolvers also

keep your fuckin finger out of the trigger guard and you won't have the problem

as far as 9mm vs .45 acp................................give me the .45 anyday

I own a Glock 19 and it's a great gun. I have about 10,000 rounds through it and it fits my hands really well. I would be comfortable carrying it for defensive purposes

but I find myself carrying a Glock 30sf more and more. The 9mm might expand but the .45 won't shrink

yeah, I know that's an internet saying but it's true

IWantThatKnife

12-27-2008, 10:15 AM

Bag that shit, Ron, XD's feel like a real pistol, not some roll-cap firing toy! :evilness:

the finest not made in America by America's not the oldest name in American Firearms. But not the best (nor the worst) guns in America. I wouldn't own an XD series gun if you paid me - but then I don't like Springfield.

JMForge

12-27-2008, 10:23 AM

The ultimate double stack DA 9mm was the Walther P88. It had the slim, comfy ergonomics of a tuned Hi-Power with rounded aftermarket grips and was built like a cross between a Swiss watch and a Leopard tank. And Walther and Sig are the two companies that have continually disproven the notion that you can't build a 9mm Parabellum tack driver. Unfortunately, the P88 was priced accordingly. Not quite the sticker shock of a Sig P210, but close enough!!!! The P99 that replaced it was a lumpy plastic abortion by comparison. IMO, the USP is in the same category as the P99 when compared to the P7 and P9 that preceded it. The .45 P9 is proof that a "space gun" doesn't have to feel like a cinder block in your hand. The Glock is the original Plastic Fantastic, but I must admit that the orignal full sized model was a marvel of engineering and industrial design. Not bad for a guy who had never designed or built a gun before. The full sized Glocks naturally point very well. Almost like a Smith K frame. The little tiny double stack models, on the other hand, feel like a very small cinder block.:wes:

Pilot

12-27-2008, 10:28 AM

I don't own any Glocks but I have three HK's. A P7M8, a P7 PSP and a USP Tactical .45. I LOVE the P7's, but I don't like the high bore axis of the USP although its a great gun. Very reliable and accurate.

Gonna surprise everyone. Except for the P7...........GLOCK! Will NEVER own one though. :wes:

Will

12-28-2008, 07:45 AM

H&K's are well engineered pieces of art and like all art should be left in the safe, which is where I keep my H&K's

Glock for me.

The safety is fine. If you keep your finger off the trigger you will find the chances of it going bang are greatly diminished.

Oh and .45 although I shoot my 9mm more now because ammo is cheaper and it was either shoot less or change calibers.

Peter Lezard

12-28-2008, 08:31 AM

I miss my HK something BAD... :crying: BUT if I ever buy another pistol it will be a .45 Glock. Why? It has become the new "1911" as far a being almost universal. You can find mags, parts, etc, almost anywhere, even in the sticks.

They also go "bang" every time, and like Ken said, they are just as "safe" as any other pistol out there... Yes, I still like blue steel and walnut grips, but a guy has to look at his situation...

I usually stay away from the old 45 vs 9mm thing.... :ropeman:

langston302

12-30-2008, 02:41 AM

Raindog

12-30-2008, 09:24 AM

The Glock is the original Plastic Fantastic, but I must admit that the orignal full sized model was a marvel of engineering and industrial design.

Sorry, but wrong! HK predated the Glock with the VP70Z. And let's not forget the 18 round magazine it had. The trigger is laughable but it was a very innovative handgun. Extremely easy to field strip and clean.

http://www.dreadgazebo.com/gunporn/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/gunporn-vp70z.jpg

I have owned a ton of HKs and only two Glocks. While I kinda like my model 36 it just doesn't feel as nice in my hand as an USP. However, the feel of cold steel that a nice 1911 gives off trumps both IMHO.

JMForge

12-30-2008, 09:42 AM

Sorry, but wrong! HK predated the Glock with the VP70Z. And let's not forget the 18 round magazine it had. The trigger is laughable but it was a very innovative handgun. Extremely easy to field strip and clean.

http://www.dreadgazebo.com/gunporn/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/gunporn-vp70z.jpg

I have owned a ton of HKs and only two Glocks. While I kinda like my model 36 it just doesn't feel as nice in my hand as an USP. However, the feel of cold steel that a nice 1911 gives off trumps both IMHO.

Steyr made a big one too, but nobody bought either of those guns. Steyr AUG non-witstanding, most people probably didn't even realize that you could make a polymer gun until Glock hit the market. HK has probably pushed the envelope in the last 40 years more than any firearms manufacturer since the days of John Browning, but with that said, not all of those innovations have been home runs.:cheesydevil: The HK4 with its interchangable calibers was a "good idea" that just didn't work all that well. Ditto for the VP70Z and the HK11 and its caseless ammo.

falcon125

12-30-2008, 11:17 AM

Sorry, but wrong! HK predated the Glock with the VP70Z. And let's not forget the 18 round magazine it had. The trigger is laughable but it was a very innovative handgun. Extremely easy to field strip and clean.

http://www.dreadgazebo.com/gunporn/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/gunporn-vp70z.jpg

I have owned a ton of HKs and only two Glocks. While I kinda like my model 36 it just doesn't feel as nice in my hand as an USP. However, the feel of cold steel that a nice 1911 gives off trumps both IMHO.

I bought one of those in 1980 and knew a few people that had them. I belive they paved the way for the Glock. Plastic, High capacity and stryker fired. Since they were made for 19 years and used by Germany I would have to say they were a success.
Glock did make em cheaper with a better trigger, But the VP70Z was the first plastic pistol.
Nothing wrong with a Glock, But I would compare it to Taurus or Ruger pistols.
HK I would compare to Sig Sauer.
The Glock has definetly become the "Ford Escort" of the pistol world.
They are cheap, reliable and almost everybody has one.

IWantThatKnife

12-30-2008, 11:59 AM

G L O C K.

and Ken Brock said it all.

its the idiot or the professional at the trigger that make a weapon unsafe or safe....not the weapon itself:signhere:

as a matter of fact i think ken needs green for that comment.

Sometimes Langston those "professionals" you're talking about are more idiot then the idiots you allude to. I work with a few. One fellow, claims he can hit a dime with a scoped .22 lr rifle at 200 yards...consistently. Yet on pistol qual day at work, where you need a 120 or higher (max 150) to qualify he barely makes it. It must be the range; we only shoot from the 3-1/2 to the 15 yard line!

Raindog

12-30-2008, 01:18 PM

The Glock has definetly become the "Ford Escort" of the pistol world.
They are cheap, reliable and almost everybody has one.

Green given!

Iceman

12-30-2008, 04:47 PM

THE Oldest debate in a gun forum? Are you kidding me? Newbies......

It's Winchester vs Remington, Control Round Feed vs Push Feed.

We all know CRF rules.

or 270 is the best cartridge all around for North American game........

Rover

12-30-2008, 05:13 PM

Love Glocks. One of my first handguns was a 23 that my dad bought me for my 13th birthday.If I could only own 1 handgun it would be a 19.

JParanee

12-30-2008, 05:27 PM

New around here and do not want to piss anybody off but 1911 all the way
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa302/jparanee/bowie019-1.jpg

Rover

12-30-2008, 05:43 PM

Fuckin showoff.Seriously though, that's a beautiful pistol. I finally got another 1911 in my collection after a couple of years of not having one. Got a Dan Wesson 10mm Razorback. Great shooter but I don't trust it like my 20. http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z112/artrover/DSC04533.jpg

Ken Brock

12-30-2008, 06:04 PM

Nothing wrong with a Glock, But I would compare it to Taurus or Ruger pistols.
HK I would compare to Sig Sauer.
The Glock has definetly become the "Ford Escort" of the pistol world.
They are cheap, reliable and almost everybody has one.

You really can't be serious about comparing Glock to Taurus or Ruger, right?

I've carried most makes of handguns (and seen many thousands of weapons fired in training) and that is a non-realistic comparison

HKs are nice but in the last pistol competition I was in, the SWAT team that issued USPs spent the entire match trying to get their pistols to run. Many malfunctions that day (and not with Glocks)

HKs also have a the handling of a brick and a trigger that is rough to manipulate (but in fairness, I *hate* DA/SA triggers). They are generally reliable though and plenty accurate. Too expensive though

Sig Sauer makes a nice gun. Accurate and the best DA/SA trigger. That being said, they are overpriced and don't balance well for me. They feel top heavy and clunky

As far as the Taurus, I wouldn't hit a dog in the ass with a Taurus. all of their attempts to produce a decent working pistol that isn't a clunker have been fruitless

Ruger pistols are like big clunky complicated turds. Some of the polymer framed guns are better than the originals but still clunky

Glocks relatively cheap, easy to work on and reliable. From a training standpoint, they are easier for me to teach with due to not having that many controls and a trigger that works the same every time

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Glock cool aid drinker and think that they are the end all of handguns but they do work really well for what they are.

Peter Lezard

12-30-2008, 08:16 PM

Ken Brock

12-30-2008, 08:33 PM

Ken...they had that many problems with the USPs? I had mine for several years and put over 6,000 rounds through mine...never even thought about a stoppage...Sounds like bad re-loads to me...

That being said, I know Glocks will run and run as well. The only ones I've seen mess up are ones that have been tinkered with. A classic case of "If its not broke don't fix it!"

yep, that particular SWAT team issues the USP in .45 acp (I've owned 4 of them and not had problems)

every single guy on that competition team had feeding problems

they were using Winchester White Box ammo that they bought at Wal Mart

Peter Lezard

12-30-2008, 08:37 PM

Wow...with factory ammo? Very strange...

Sheldon_Wickersham

12-30-2008, 10:46 PM

Peter - "with factory ammo? Very strange..."

Dunno that I'd call that Walmart Winchester white-box ammo 'factory'...I know it's 'posed to be, and some of it may be good, but a few of the guys running it through their .45ACP guns during last summers IDPA matches also ran into problems...

I was kinda surprised too, but I won't be buying any. As always, YMMV...:deviltard:

IWantThatKnife

12-30-2008, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by falcon125
Nothing wrong with a Glock, But I would compare it to Taurus or Ruger pistols.
HK I would compare to Sig Sauer.
The Glock has definetly become the "Ford Escort" of the pistol world.
They are cheap, reliable and almost everybody has one.

What Ken said; with an exception; Taurus' latest venture into the handgun market, the PT1911 is becoming one of the best values in the 1911 arena. I have a Stainless PT1911 and have not had a single issue with it; primarily shooting 230 grain ball ammo. Around 200 rounds (I know, not a lot) so far; but the gun performs very well. On my first trip to the range with it I took my Glock 29 in 10mm as well. I fired 30 rounds out of each, from the 3.5, 7, and 15 yard line, shooting the CBP Qualification Course: 3.5 yd line - 6 rds strong hand only, 6 rounds support hand only; 7 yd line, draw and fire 2 rds in 3 seconds stay aimed in 2 rds in 2 sec and 2 rds in 2 sec. Then 2 to the chest 1 to the head (twice) move to 15 yard line 2 rds each strong side and support side barricade, 2 rounds kneeling strong side barricade. Max score 150. These two targets are the first time I shot both guns...now keep in mind for my first 4 years with CBP I carried a Glock 17.

http://iwantthatknife.com/Gallery/albums/rimfire-guns/Taurus_Sig_1911.sized.jpg

http://iwantthatknife.com/Gallery/albums/military_guns/pt1911_target.sized.jpg
http://iwantthatknife.com/Gallery/albums/military_guns/glock_target.sized.jpg

All the aforementioned guns have their pluses and minuses; but the Austrian and German guns are top shelf; the Taurus middle shelf, the Ruger pistols? I don't know; I've never given them a thought other then the MkI and MkII target guns. They just don't seem right.

Ken Brock

12-30-2008, 11:08 PM

What Ken said; with an exception; Taurus' latest venture into the handgun market, the PT1911 is becoming one of the best values in the 1911 arena.

I've never given them a thought other then the MkI and MkII target guns. They just don't seem right.

sir, you are right. I had forgotten about the PT1911 and was thinking of the PT-92, Millenium, etc

I have not handled or shot the 1911 platform from Taurus and apologize for leaving it out

The Ruger MkII, Single Six, etc are fine pistols. I regularly hunt with a Ruger Bisley and have fired many thousands of rounds from the Single Six and Mk II

when I mentioned Rugers, I was talking about their semi-auto defensive pistols

thanks for reminding me

JMForge

12-30-2008, 11:47 PM

New around here and do not want to piss anybody off but 1911 all the way
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa302/jparanee/bowie019-1.jpg
LOL.....no argument from me, Joe. My dad just scored one of the small Kimber Custom Shop numbers for the price of the regular model and it is SWEET!!!!! But then again, I am a bit of a traditionalist. The most modern pistol I have ever bought was a Walther P99 and I hated it. My Sig 220 is the only other handgun that I own that was arguably based on a post 1945 design ( it is still pretty much a Browning descendant). My Walther P5 looks "modern" but it is based on the P38;-) The one auto pistol wihout an exposed hammer that I really liked was the HK P9, but that was because you could cock and decock it if you wanted to go single action. I thought they should have tried to use that platform for a double stack service pistol, but it was probably too expensive. The P7-13 sure was.

JParanee

12-31-2008, 01:00 AM

Hey Joe my first post on this forum and there is my buddy. I am always glad to see ya around brother.

JMForge

12-31-2008, 01:58 AM

Hey Joe my first post on this forum and there is my buddy. I am always glad to see ya around brother.
Dude...........you live closer to Jersey than I do. What tok you so long to join?

Blastmaster1972

12-31-2008, 02:44 AM

glock vs. hk:devilzeek

someone fill me in.:madaddy:

FN GP 35. (that's a Browning Hi-Power for you Americans)

I hate those new fangled plastic guns.

Kind regards,

Jos

langston302

12-31-2008, 11:13 AM

Sometimes Langston those "professionals" you're talking about are more idiot then the idiots you allude to. I work with a few. One fellow, claims he can hit a dime with a scoped .22 lr rifle at 200 yards...consistently. Yet on pistol qual day at work, where you need a 120 or higher (max 150) to qualify he barely makes it. It must be the range; we only shoot from the 3-1/2 to the 15 yard line!

I know Tim, I know....I was alluding to the TRUE PISTOLEER, or GUNFIGHTER. professionals and non professionals that practice safe and effective use of a firearm and demonstrate profeicency ...not that jackass who just has one on thier hip and make the world a more dangerous place just by that act...I know of a few right off hand....:signhere:... and sadly, most of them wear badges...cops are the absolute worst....but i see that changing...with the weapons qualifiers now being mandated for multiple quals a year and the stressed and empahsised training placed upon new officers in conjunction with better trained instructors that know what the hell they are doing and can actually teach it to you, I can see an upswing in better firearms handling inside the departments in a few years...or less even.

Nebuchadnezzar

12-31-2008, 12:30 PM

I've owned Glocks, Sigs, Hks, Kimbers, Rugers, Smith and Wessons, and shot many more.

When I decided to go back to school I shaved down my gun collection, the four renaming out of over a dozen, are a Sig 229 two tone in .357sig (the wife stole that one from me so of course it can't be sold), HK 45C, Kimber Ultra CDP II (for sale atm) and Ruger GP 100. Over the years I've owned a G21c, G30, 2 G20s, G31 and a G17. I know the guns inside and out, they are relatively inexpensive, simple and easy to repair and keep running smoothly. So why did I sell them all? Because HK, Sig and Kimber are fundamentally better guns. Are they more expensive... yes, are they more complex and require more than a few min to understand how they are assembled and disassembled... yes.
If I was to choose a gun for someone who had never shot before, or was mechanically inept I would hand them a Glock without blinking, knowing that in an afternoon I could teach them safe handling skills and how how to maintain the gun. If someone's top priority was ease of disassemblly and reliability again they would get a Glock. If someone wanted a good pistol and didn't have allot of money to spend again they would get a Glock. If someone came to me and asked what is the best balance of accuracy, durability, and ease of function, I would point them to a Sig if they wanted alloy frames or HK if they wanted polymer.

That said my HK 45c is my go to handgun and the Sig 229 is my wife's.:thumbsup:

IWantThatKnife

12-31-2008, 05:22 PM

the High Power. I own 3 of them; a modern Browning in .40 S&W and 2 John Inglis WWII serial number matching frames and slides. Last year I saw that Numrich (aka E-Gun Parts) had the frame/slide combos for a paltry $95.00. Hell no I could not resist the deal...times two.

http://iwantthatknife.com/Gallery/albums/military_guns/Hi_Powers.jpg

So, off my lazy buttocks and make some High Powers this winter!!! I have 4 9mm barrels (none are Inglis I have to hand fit them by filing the lug to fit and shave the diameter a little bit...

falcon125

12-31-2008, 06:02 PM

You really can't be serious about comparing Glock to Taurus or Ruger, right?
If I was going to compare Semi-Auto Pistols $500 and below, Yes I would. and the Glock would win.

I've carried most makes of handguns (and seen many thousands of weapons fired in training) and that is a non-realistic comparison.
5 or 10 years ago I would agree with you. I think Both Taurus and Ruger have made quality improvements in the past few years that bring them into the same ballpark as Glock.

HKs are nice but in the last pistol competition I was in, the SWAT team that issued USPs spent the entire match trying to get their pistols to run. Many malfunctions that day (and not with Glocks)

HKs also have a the handling of a brick and a trigger that is rough to manipulate (but in fairness, I *hate* DA/SA triggers). They are generally reliable though and plenty accurate. Too expensive though.
I disagree, But you dont like H&K and I do. For me it fits my hand, points naturally and the trigger does what I tell it.

Sig Sauer makes a nice gun. Accurate and the best DA/SA trigger. That being said, they are overpriced and don't balance well for me. They feel top heavy and clunky.
I agree, Sig makes a nice gun. Which is why I put them in the same category as H&K

As far as the Taurus, I wouldn't hit a dog in the ass with a Taurus. all of their attempts to produce a decent working pistol that isn't a clunker have been fruitless.:cheesydevil:
Thats funny. It reminds me of the time I was in Manhatten and told some guy I was going to New Jersey the next day. He said, in a heavy New York Accent "New Jersey? I wouldn't let my dog shit in New Jersey"

Ruger pistols are like big clunky complicated turds. Some of the polymer framed guns are better than the originals but still clunky.
I still remember the depression from getting my brand new P85 and shooting with a buddy that had the Beretta 92. I could not belive that Ruger got the Military trials reopened with that clunky rattle trap. I have close relatives working for Ruger and was embarassed for them. Ruger Semi-Auto pistols SUCKED for quite some time. I think they have gotten better but, I would take a Glock over a ruger and my Brother would understand.

Glocks relatively cheap, easy to work on and reliable. From a training standpoint, they are easier for me to teach with due to not having that many controls and a trigger that works the same every time

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Glock cool aid drinker and think that they are the end all of handguns but they do work really well for what they are.
I agree.
Except for the cool-aid drinker part.

Mr.LaBella

12-31-2008, 06:05 PM

New around here and do not want to piss anybody off but 1911 all the way
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa302/jparanee/bowie019-1.jpg

:welcome: to The JD! We do not get pissed off, we are all new age and shit! Great looking shooter. :cheers:

Ken Brock

12-31-2008, 06:42 PM

Except for the cool-aid drinker part.

nah, if I were a :koolaid: drinker then I would tell you that the sun doesn't rise without Gaston Glocks permission

I also never said I don't like HK. I think they are fine pistols and I've owned several different ones. I carried a HK USP .45 for awhile in SWAT duties and it was a fine shooter.

they just don't fit me as well as some other guns

Hawaiian

12-31-2008, 08:59 PM

HK v Glock?
9mm v 45?

I carried a G19 for many years. It is a great firearm. I now carry an HK45c.

udtjim

12-31-2008, 09:44 PM

I remember when there were no Glocks. I have had all of the Glocks except the Baby ones. I don't have any left. I have gone to mostly Rugers and am waiting for a Kimber.

Shike

12-31-2008, 10:03 PM

oldest debate in gun forum history?

Is the .22 rimfire adequate for self defense? It's gotta be one of the oldest gun debates.

As far as guns? Shit! I love them all. Prefer the 1911 .45ACP but I am really diggin the Glock 19 right now. Accurate, lightweight and 15 rounds of
+P 9mm ammo. What I carry daily is a S&W 442 in .38 cal. The 1911 is a PIA to carry unless you have the right attire and I am not into dressing around my gun.
Shot a USP .45. Great gun just not for me. Prefer the Sig or the Glock.

Will

01-01-2009, 01:06 AM

For the most part it's personal preference. I hear the my (insert gun here) is more accurate that your glock quite a bit. In a perfect world it may be but in reality it's the dude behind the trigger. I can't recall meeting many folks that can shoot at their guns potential.

cover6

01-01-2009, 02:08 AM

I gotta go with Nebuchadnezzar's response: either a Sig or HK
My first gun was a Sig P220 after that a Glock 17, then a HK USP, a S&W 686 plus snubnose, Kimber Eclipse Pro, and finally a Springfield Armory XD Tactical in .45 my duty and personal carry piece. As you can tell the .45 is my choice in caliber, I never owned a 40 simply because I didn't like the way it felt recoil wise. Between the Sig,HK,Kimber, and XD for just a one gun choice, it would definitely be a Sig P220 in SA, HK 45C a close 2nd. The only reason I carry the XD now is the ergonomics, capacity and 1911 like handling, besides the fact that the previous guns mentioned have been sold throughout the years. SUCKS! Yeah I know.

IWantThatKnife

01-01-2009, 06:38 AM

a GLOCK 4 in 1 (I call it that) a model 29 10 mm with 3 barrels - .357 Sig, .40 S&W, and 9x25 Dillon; I looked at two Glocks yesterday - a full size and baby Glock, both in .45 acp. I like the caliber too; when I finally learn how to reload it will be the .45 acp. I almost bought the baby Glock but will wait until I go to the gun show this weekend in Detroit (I have 3 tables at it) and see what's available in 1911s...

vjb.knife

01-01-2009, 11:10 AM

I own all of them. In 9mm I have a Behlert custom Browning High Power which has no equal, it never fails and it will out-shoot any of the others period.

In 40 S&W I have an H&K USP and I like the feel of it and prefer it to a Glock.

In 45 ACP I have a S&W M&P which is very reliable and I really like the feel of it but it is somewhat lacking in accuracy. I also have an H&K USP Tactical which is all around a good performer; never misfeeds and shoots pretty accurately. In general I like the feel of it but it is a pretty big chunk.

I also have two 1911 type Kimbers; a CDPII and a Grand Raptor II which I can't say anything bad about, I love them.

Now for Glock I have a model 20 in 10mm and that is why I own a Glock because it is the best 10mm on the market. I don't think it is a bad feeling gun, but not my favorite. It is extremely reliable and acceptably accurate and with 15 + 1 rounds of kick-ass 10 mm it is a beast.

So for me they each have their niche and I like them all but overall for me it is H&K over Glock and Kimber Grand Raptor over both of them and custom Browning High Power at the top. I don't carry a handgun except in the woods on camping trips and if I were carrying a pistol it would probably be the 10mm Glock but I usually carry a revolver which is a S&W 4" 329 44 magnum with the light weight scandium frame and titanium cylinder.

Sorry it's along convoluted story but there you have it.

Raindog

01-01-2009, 11:34 AM

vjb.knife:

:useless:

vjb.knife

01-02-2009, 02:37 PM

vjb.knife:

:useless:

Sorry, here are some recent range pictures of the Kimbers.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/vjbknife/knives/CDPII.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/vjbknife/knives/GRII-2.jpg

Here are a few others.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/vjbknife/knives/DSC03554.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/vjbknife/knives/DSC03560.jpg

langston302

01-02-2009, 02:45 PM

now thats a reply....awesome

The General

01-02-2009, 05:24 PM

vjb.knife

01-02-2009, 10:16 PM

This is turning into a fucking knife, pistol and watch porno thread!:kingkaxt:

More please!!!!!!:chuck:

Love the Browning Hi Power for what its worth... my first introduction to the 9mm Para round was with a Hi Power.

That gun is pure sex.

Here's one more. I had Austin Behlert work some magic on this back in the late 1980's and it is a favorite.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/vjbknife/DSC01473.jpg

Shike

01-03-2009, 08:46 AM

Added Front night sight and Titanium guide rod
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z312/miguelo_conguero/DSCN0657.jpg

Ed Brown built on a Baer Frame and slide with Barsto Barrel
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z312/miguelo_conguero/DSCN0263.jpg

This is a WWII Colt that I rebuilt using Wilson and Brown parts.
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z312/miguelo_conguero/DSCN0270.jpg

El Gringo

01-03-2009, 08:51 AM

Nice trio!
Who's the lil' feller working on the Colt?:manganr:

langston302

01-03-2009, 09:06 AM

thats Ron....

vjb.knife

01-03-2009, 12:16 PM

I was wondering how many out there have a CZ 75 and would care to comment on it.

I am also kind of interested in the Armalite AR24 clone of it, if anybody has experience with it.

Ken Brock

01-03-2009, 12:30 PM

I was wondering how many out there have a CZ 75 and would care to comment on it.

I am also kind of interested in the Armalite AR24 clone of it, if anybody has experience with it.

I like the CZ-75 quite a bit although I think it's a bit heavy for a 9mm

The trigger can be a tad long in the single action pull for folk with short fingers

if I run across one on a good deal I'll pick one up. I've shot some but not owned one yet

Shike

01-03-2009, 06:58 PM

thats Ron....

:manganr:

Courtesy of my little boy!

langston302

01-03-2009, 07:39 PM

I was wondering how many out there have a CZ 75 and would care to comment on it.

I am also kind of interested in the Armalite AR24 clone of it, if anybody has experience with it.
I had one and working on another...damn fine pistol. It was /is accurate and shoots smooth as hell but sadly with very few accessories available aftermarket...as far as the Armalite, just stick with the CZ

I like the CZ-75 quite a bit although I think it's a bit heavy for a 9mm

The trigger can be a tad long in the single action pull for folk with short fingers

if I run across one on a good deal I'll pick one up. I've shot some but not owned one yet
Ken is right its heavy for sure but is allows for some great muzzle control because of the weight...the trigger was the reason i got rid of mine about 6 years ago

and Ken I have a deal for you....

Basko

01-03-2009, 09:52 PM

I have multiple Glocks and Sigs and one HK. I carry the HK every day because it's the duty gun. I like the Sigs the best. I think they are the finest made of them all. However, the HK is an excellent gun and the Glocks work every time, as well. They all shoot to point of aim for me. I like them all. It is hard to pick a favorite. I'd carry any of them without hesitation.

Mr.LaBella

01-04-2009, 06:49 AM

thats Ron....

Hero worship at it's finest :ron:

Shike

01-04-2009, 09:17 PM

Hero worship at it's finest :ron:

:kingkaxt:

wildman

01-04-2009, 10:20 PM

I have had the pleasure to shoot both guns. Both have their pros and cons. Glock pros, I can take the thing apart and when I pu it back together there are no extra parts. LOL. I like the consistant trigger pull and the simplicty of the weapon system. On the HK I like the accuracy and the ambi mag release. What I don't like about the HK, is that I cannot take the weapon apart completely with out specific tools.

Also the customer service sucks. One of our guys that carry a weapon for the job needed a new recoil guide rod and spring. So I called HK several times until I was able to talk to someone. Apparently HK only has one guy for customer service. I was unable to get a hold of that guy so they sent me LE/Mil guy. He told me that it was not his job, but would help me because the guy that needed the part was a gun carrier. He said I should have the part in a week. Well two weeks later I called and he said it did not ship. He said even though the part was in stock it would take awhile.

Needless to say we finally got it. I was told that I would have to talk to one of their LE/Mil salesman when I needed a part again.

Just my opinion. Again, they make great weapons until they break.

cheers.

JMForge

01-05-2009, 08:16 PM

Justin Sain

01-05-2009, 09:11 PM

When in doubt, buy 2-3 of each

Parker

01-05-2009, 09:26 PM

Jparanee, love the stag, but it HAS been done around here :cadi:

I mean that literally - the serial no. puts this one at 1944.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8d737b3127ccec574c20379d600000050O00QaM2zZm4cMQ e3nwQ/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b8d737b3127ccec5758a9ad81700000050O00QaM2zZm4cMQ e3nwQ/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I do love some of the older Wilson guns, but this one, man, you gave it some serious class. Almost makes me want to give up my XD's. Almost :Devilroar:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa302/jparanee/bowie019-1.jpg

Ron, the oldest debate in forum history - 45acp versus who the fuck cares what 9mm.......:devilfinger: Just kidding, lil guy, I have several XD9's and love them dearly, and I have also owned and loved HK USP9's (variant 2) and had one G19 I hated as a shooter, but the fugging thing worked EVERY time I squeezed, yanked or pulled the trigger.