Is he right class ?

[tubtar]

I will never begrudge a persion their faith...but I think TMG is right on in his assessment.
I like to think that like drugs and alcohol , religion is best used in moderation.
It can become a crutch like any abusable substance , and the deeper the hook is set , the bigger an asshole you become to others........except other alkys , dopers or bible beaters.
Just my pre tax .02,
J.S.

[007]

If there isn't I'm gonna be really pissed about all the peckerheads I've tried to forgive. :hityou:

[snowdon]

Yeah I'm just about sick to death of hearing the excuse "It was Gods/Alas will". Bullshit! Its fucking PEOPLE imposing their will, and they neeed to be held responsible! mutherfuckers..... :dammit: :)

[Kalooch135]

Though I was raised Catholic I don't believe in god. I have seen enough bad shit in this world to dispell that myth.

[BennytheBlade]

A little off topic, but the people that dont believe in God (or anything of the sort) I wonder how you make sense of the world?
I know having a "higher power" has a lot to do w/ why im not dead right now from drugs and booze.

[Kalooch135]

A little off topic, but the people that dont believe in God (or anything of the sort) I wonder how you make sense of the world?
I know having a "higher power" has a lot to do w/ why im not dead right now from drugs and booze.

I believe in science and that shit happens and no "god" will change it. No amount of prayer, faith, or divine intervention will prevent or change what will happen due to a certain set of circumstances. We can change what we already know could happen because we have seen it before and there is a way to prevent it. Example: It is not god's will that a 21 year-old scumbag died of a herion OD last night. It was his own damn fault for doing the fucking drug. If he didn't do the drugs he would not have died. He could have changed the outcome by not doing drugs but chose not to. Too bad for him. He is now missing out on the rest of his life. God did not make him do drugs. It may sound harsh but it is the truth. Some people believe that they will go to heaven when the die. Some belive they will go to hell. I believe I will become fertilizer. You're born, you live your life as best you can, you die, you get buried in the ground or cremated. End of story.

[BennytheBlade]

Understood, but in your opinion, whats the point of life?
Whether you believe in God or Buddha or whatever, if there is NOTHING, then what point is there to getting up in the morning. If your going to end up fertilzer anyhow, then why care how your short time on earth ends up?

For the record, Im not trying to convert anyone, I just find this sort of thing interesting.

[Kalooch135]

Understood, but in your opinion, whats the point of life?
Whether you believe in God or Buddha or whatever, if there is NOTHING, then what point is there to getting up in the morning. If your going to end up fertilzer anyhow, then why care how your short time on earth ends up?

For the record, Im not trying to convert anyone, I just find this sort of thing interesting.

I get up in the morning because I have a family that needs me, a job that I love, and friends that I like to be with. I know I will die someday and until that day comes I want to spend it with those I love and care about. That's my motivation.

[VampyreWolf]

Raised united, and now, because of my beliefs the same christian church calls me either an aethiest or paegan.

Got news for yah... science and evolution are the major forces in the world. Pray all you want, but it's just useless breeze.

only 2 topics I avoid discussing online... race and religion.

[Dylan]

A little off topic, but the people that dont believe in God (or anything of the sort) I wonder how you make sense of the world?

I believe that is one of the purposes of a God, to give meaning and purpose to one's life. People wanted to explain their existence and so man "created" God.

[007]

Nothing Kalooch said about free will is against Christianity, only the doctrine of predestination.

[BennytheBlade]

I believe that is one of the purposes of a God, to give meaning and purpose to one's life. People wanted to explain their existence and so man "created" God.
Yeah, that is definitely a part of the "leap of faith" philosophical arguement.
Its nice and safe to just assume that God exists because it answers all the questions for you.
But the other side of it has always been more interesting to me. (Believing in something that you will never be able to "prove" exists, which Kierkegaard said wasnt safe at all)

[007]

I just have to laugh out loud at all these people who are absolutely certain
that there is no God, because they believe in "science". Yet the very most that science can say on the subject is that we don't have any proof one way or the other.

[Clydetz]

Yes... I believe in God! She is up there watching over us all! If you are bad down here, she makes you (men & women) wear a dress in Heaven and you have to wash & iron it everyday! If you're good down here, she let's you go around nekid in Heaven without a care in the world. Don't worry about a Hell... we're already there!

[Kalooch135]

I just have to laugh out loud at all these people who are absolutely certain
that there is no God, because they believe in "science". Yet the very most that science can say on the subject is that we don't have any proof one way or the other.

True. There is no proof that god does or does not exist. But in the mean time I will chose not to believe. I have to laugh out loud at all these people that are absolutely certain there is a god.

[Trixie]

I plead a severe case of apathy. It makes no difference to me either way. It would not change my actions or my path. Either way I live a life true to myself, and that is the most agreeable bet. All I know for sure is that I have myself, so in the end, no matter what, if I lived true to myself, then I can have no regrets.

I think religion is can be and normally is a crutch, but just like people take an asprin for a headache, people take a pray for a heart ache. Religion can be whatever dose of relief you need it to be. Who is to say this is wrong? It is whatever can get you through the day. There are extremists in everything, they poison the pool for the rest.

I chose to reject this idea of a superior being, more importantly, I just do not care. If it did make a difference, than you are living your life with all the wrong reasons, and that is even worse than the other.

[007]

If the Good Lord who made you gave you the right to choose what to believe, Kalooch,
who am I to tell you different. :-D

[Trixie]

and it is that kind of circular thinking 007 that kills kittens. it is a no win situation. There must be a God because I can think for myself. :hityou:

That's why there can never be a win in religious theory. Which is what it all is. Just theory. I just happen to find my theory is easier to live with than your theory. :poke:

[007]

I think you misunderstood my post, Trixie. I'm acknowledging Kalooch's right to believe whatever he wants.

[Trixie]

you acknowledge his right to believe whatever he wants by reminding him that God gave him that right....enter circular thinking round one.

[Guillermo]

Oh I believe and not for reward or to feel good about myself. You can debate details forever but there is a God and there will be judgement. I am only a man and have fucked up too many times to count. Thought I had it good for a while, easy pussy cheap drugs and they all came with a price. I have read and do read the Bible every day so I know right from wrong. Just thought that I could work around my "problems". Bad things do happen to good people but as for me I have been blessed and bring all bad things my way. The Bible is Gods way to show his love. As a child I never wanted to listen to my parents but were just showing their love whenever they told me what to do and not do. Don't even comment until you read it and seek God. It just doesn't fall from the sky into your lap, you need to work at it to believe. I did not evlove from a fucking monkey and I did not have the need to create a higher pover. I have free will but was created to serve.

[Clydetz]

I believe in whatever gets you through the day! I sorta try to follow a '...do unto others as you would have done unto you...' type of life. Don't really care what the other guy does or believes in!

[Kalooch135]

If the Good Lord who made you gave you the right to choose what to believe, Kalooch,
who am I to tell you different. :-D

That's just the sort of thing I hate. People telling me that god gave me the right to think as I do. Your god didn't give me crap. He didn't give me life, my parents did. He didn't make me join the USAF, I followed my fathers footsteps. He didn't make me become a firefighter, I did that on my own. I built up everything I have because I chose to, not because your of your god. Does your god pay my bills, feed my kids, build my house, or walk my dog? NO! I do. :neener: :-D :poke:

[007]

This is hilarious. You're damn right you are responsible for your decisions.
That's the way things are. :D

[BennytheBlade]

Its all good, I hope I didnt take this too far off topic by asking a coupla questions.

Some stats for your amusement
Great article.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31266

[Trixie]

*cough* enter round 2 of circular thinking *cough*

[Dylan]

I just have to laugh out loud at all these people who are absolutely certain
that there is no God, because they believe in "science". Yet the very most that science can say on the subject is that we don't have any proof one way or the other.

No, it doesn't provide proof but it does provide many contradictions in religion (Christianity namely). Atheists have just as many reasons or just as much "proof" to NOT believe as you theists do, so I must laugh at you.


You can debate details forever but there is a God and there will be judgement.

Another reason that man created God IMO; they didn't want to accept that the bad guy wins. People want to believe that if they do the "good" thing, the "Christian" thng, that they will be rewarded.


Don't even comment until you read it and seek God.

I searched for God for 17 years, I never found him and he never found me. I was raised a Christian and I believe that religion is something that is almost programmed into people by their peers. When one is young and impressionable, people, namely their parents, tell them there is a God, so they grow up believing that. I'd be interested to see how someone would choose their beliefs if there was no influence of any kind from others.


It just doesn't fall from the sky into your lap, you need to work at it to believe

That almost sounds like you're saying that you have to force yourself to believe.

[Kalooch135]

This is hilarious. You're damn right you are responsible for your decisions.
That's the way things are. :D

Exactly! And god had no hand in any of it. :-D

[007]

you acknowledge his right to believe whatever he wants by reminding him that God gave him that right....enter circular thinking round one.

That's not circular thinking , my dear.

[Trixie]

yes it is. It is called tautology.

Example:

It is believed that all people who exercise free will and thought must have gotten it from God.
Kalooch is a person who uses his free will and free thought.
Therefore, Kalooch must have gotten free will and thought from God.

:slap:

[VampyreWolf]

Need me to list dates as to why our years are off, since this so called "son of god" was born as late as 4BC? Go look up the work of King Herod and the year he killed all children 2yrs and under.

:doublefu:

[Guillermo]

Got off subject, too much drugs or booze or religion can be bad. More killing has been in the name of God than any other. Good points Dylan, I was "saved" and did not go back to church next week or for the next 15 years but I do not do it for reward. I just believe and I can only say that either you do or do not.

[Wolfgang]

Need me to list dates as to why our years are off, since this so called "son of god" was born as late as 4BC? Go look up the work of King Herod and the year he killed all children 2yrs and under.

:doublefu:

I thought is was just the first born of every family that was dragged out of their homes and slaughtered in the street by King Herod :decoder:

To stay on topic... I don't believe in god, I believe there is a lot more then we will ever know... but I know no organized religion or science has actually proven there is a god, and if they did I still wouldn't care. As far as I'm concerned there is not a supreme being who sits in the clouds all day watching over "our sins" to see who to send to hell.

Organized religion is mind control, plain and simple. I would be labeled as either atheist, pagan or agnostic by most standards. You have the right to believe and practice what you wish as long as it doesn't harm others... I respect that... but show me respect as well... just don't preach at me, or I will tell you to plainly fuck off.

[007]

yes it is. It is called tautology.

Example:

It is believed that all people who exercise free will and thought must have gotten it from God.
Kalooch is a person who uses his free will and free thought.
Therefore, Kalooch must have gotten free will and thought from God.

:slap:

YOU said that, not me. All I said was that I agreed with him that he had free will. :slap:

And how ironic that it's the "atheists" who are getting all bent out of shape in a thread which asserts that religious people are intolerant.

[Mr.LaBella]

holy schnikees! this thread gives me a headache!


God is awesome and if you dont believe in Him.. its cool!

this is a forward thinking site, no rules just right!

[grover_cephas]

Need me to list dates as to why our years are off, since this so called "son of god" was born as late as 4BC? Go look up the work of King Herod and the year he killed all children 2yrs and under.



I thought is was just the first born of every family that was dragged out of their homes and slaughtered in the street by King Herod

"Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time that he had diligently enquired of the wise men."
--Matthew 2:16

But that ain't how we know Jesus was born on or before 4BC. In fact, it doesn't help at all. See, the slaughter of the innocents isn't mentioned outside that chapter of Matthew. Anywhere. It isn't mentioned anywhere else in the New Testament, or in any contemporary secular history. Nada. That doesn't prove it didn't happen (it's mightily suggestive evidence, but you can never _prove_ something hasn't happened...), but it does make the event useless as a dating tool.

The reason we know Jesus had to've been born in 4BC or earlier is that that's the year Herod the Great _died_. If Jesus was really born in the time of Herod the Great (that's the title he gave himself, BTW; it's used to distinguish between him and his sons, Herod Antipas and Herod Archaelus, who become important later in the N.T., and his third son, Herod Philip, who doesn't), it'd have to be before then.