Über rich and famous fuck mom n pop knife shop out of $5K.

[Horizonod]

I've been up tossing and turning all night over this and all I've managed to do was to get my knickers in a twist. I thought I'd run it past youze guyz and get your input.

A VERY famous action movie icon has purchased knives from us for years. Some for his personal collection and some for use in movies. We have always been paid for these transactions. His producer has also purchased knives from us in the past for use in movies and he has always paid for them.

Over a month ago this "movie star" ordered a Microtech blue HALO V with no mention of a movie. We sent it to him, overnight, and he liked the knife but wanted a different color. We sent it to him, again overnight. He really liked the knife but would love to have it in red and black for use in his next movie which started shooting in a week. Since the HALO v has never been made in red we asked the manufacturer if there was a possability that we could get some red one done for use in a movie. They agreed but the anodizer wasn't real keen on doing 2 or 3 knives so the red frames didn't get done. Since red has always been a popular color combo I told the manufacturer that we would take a run of 50 if it would help get them done. So we helped make it happen by ordering 50 red HALO Vs with black tanto blades for nearly $20K.

When the first few red frames came in the manufacturer put them on the fast track for assembly, I drove up there to pick them up late in the day with a UPS label, picked them up, boxed them and had to drive them another 30 miles to the UPS hub so they could be delivered ASAP as promissed.

That's the condensed version. In that time this rich and famous actor had ordered 10 HALO Vs total and racked up some pretty hefty shipping charges. All together the bill was a tad over $5K. Unbeknownst to me not one of these transactions had been paid for yet. No problem, right? I mean this guy has more money than everybody on this forum combined. No worries, right? WRONG!!

After jumping through all of the flaming hoops we had been asked to we can't seem to get anybody to give us a credit card number. After a couple of weeks of being ducked we insisted we be paid. After all we had a $20K bill to pay.

So two nights ago the producer calls. He doesn't understand why he has been presented with a bill for $5K plus for these knives. He proceeds to tell both Joyce and I that manufacturers pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to have products in their movies. I explained that WE are not the manufacturer but a retailer and we expect to be paid. We'll,......he didn't have a credit card with him, could we call him back at 8pm, 3 hours after our regular business hours. He was busy. We called at 8, still busy, call back in 20. So we call back in 20. We continue to get the run around and the stories about how Gill Hibben made millions off of the Rambo knife being in these movies, etc, etc, etc. I explained, once again, #1, we are a RETAILER, not a manufacturer. Manufacturers pay for product placement, NOT retailers. #2, the Rambo knives were in frame constantly and were the star prop in the Rambo movies, it was my understanding from talking to the STAR that this HALO V was going to be used but, by the way it was explained to me, not in any "leading role" as a prop. So the producer says that they will give us a mention in the movie credits if they don't have to pay for the knives. I tell him that a small credit would be nice after all of the hoops we jumped through for them but I'd rather get paid as that was what we understood the deal to be from the get go. Well the producer was still busy and couldn't talk any more. He asked me to email him with the particulars on why he received a bill for these knives.

NOTE: If you are expecting something for free isn't the time to mention it before you order and receive goods?

I sent him an email and explained, again, that we are a small "mom n pop" knife shop in the most literal sense. We had always been paid for items we furnished in the past by both him personally and the actor in question. That we had moved heaven and earth for them just to get these knives made and incurred nearly a $20K expenditure to get it done. We had made 2 special road trips to take the overnights clear to Asheville, some 50 miles away, just so they would get them when we promissed with no extra charges for travel or inconvenience being applied. I explained that the first of these knives were ordered personally and directly by the "star" and no mention of the knives being used in a movie had been made until after the "star" had received at least 3 knives and requesting them in red, which we pulled off for him. I repeated that no mention of these knives being "donated" to this movie had EVER been discussed until the night before when Joyce and I first talked to him, the director.

I vollunteered to contact the manufactuer and see if they would be willing to do something for a mention in the credits but we had already paid for all of the knives we sent them plus 47 more.

His reply, late the next day,to my volluminous reply was:

I understand Nick. Let me know either way.
Best
Kevin

This is pure bullshit!! These two multi millionaires are shooting a multi million dollar movie and I'm supposed to be so honored that they graced us by ording product we sell to make a living that I'm going to give it to them for free??

I don't know if having our name in the trailing credits way down toward the bottom would be worth $10 or $10,000. I don't even know when, or if, it will even be released. Is it worth the gamble? I don't know, but it pisses me off that they just sprung this on us and are virtually holding our feet over the fire and not furnishing us with a credit card when it's painfully clear that we would like to be PAID!! That's all,....JUST PAY US! If you want to give us credit for busting our hump and going way over and above, fine, but I would like to be paid.

I'm sure these rich and powerful people are used to getting their way and having people bend over backwards for them, which I feel we've already done, but how low can you go? Are they in financial trouble already to the point where $5K is going to even be noticed?

Here are some thoughts.

This actor is FAMOUS for his movies about the underdog coming out on top.

In the entertainment biz they say there is no such thing as bad publicity.

If I wanted to get some publicity for our business I could take a gamble on having a tiny credit in the movie, if it comes out, but that's gonna cost me $5K.

I could play the "underdog" to these Hollywood moguls and have my cake and eat it to by contacting the "entertainment news media" and asking them what they thought about the situation and if it's "gossip" worthy. That way they pay us to shut down being expossed AND we get FREE publicity. I know that sounds self serving but "publicity" is what these guys are offering for $5K. If they could get free publicity AND their money, what would they do? You're damn skippy!! They would take all they could and pay as little as possible,...just like they are doing to us.

Either way, since we've been knocking heads over this, I think we will likely lose these people as customers. I'd be embarrased if I were them too.

What say my fellow Devils? Is this bullshit? Am I getting my skivies in a twist prematurely? Is a possible tiny movie credit worth $5K? Should I even trust them with any promisses at this point?

Tonight on Entertainment tonight: Small Mom and Pop store get's stiffed for over $5000.00 by two of Hollywoods wealthiest heviest hitters. Let's ask Rocky or Rambo if the underdog is going to prevail and why two multi millionaires would sink so low. Join us at 11 for the story.

I think if I wanted some publicity I could find somebody to listen and get paid to boot.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HCUWwtRuB7Y/Th4xguFcGiI/AAAAAAAAAxo/HKjbRGacLwo/Microtech%252520HALO%252520V%252520Red%252520black %252520tanto%252520blades%252520sly%252520stallone %252520headshot%252520movie%252520knife.jpg

[GEEZER]

Total B.S.
Funny how they think their above paying..Rich Bastards..

[RoadFish]

Sad story. Name some names.

[Horizonod]

I did name some names, without using real names.

I'm going to give them the oppotunity to reconsider stiffing us and pay up before I use real names publicly but if they continue to stonewall us I'm seriously considering asking for the opinions of a few media types.

[Soup_Monger]

Do the publicity.

Sell the story... appear on morning television (looking saddened not grumpy)... name names and get what you can.

I don't see any names though.

Was it Kevin Spacey?... Jack Nicholson?... Brad?

[Nuphoria]

Fucking asshats.... I'd go very public if I were you. You get GOOD publicity out of it that way.

[S.Shepherd]

He proceeds to tell both Joyce and I that manufacturers pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to have products in their movies.

and that's his fucking problem, just like the 5 finger discount hollywood skanks think they should get when shopping.
Screw them, give them 24hrs to return them all or file charges.Then plaster the story all over the media about their "entitlement" mentality.

[apdb90]

Do the publicity.

Sell the story... appear on morning television (looking saddened not grumpy)... name names and get what you can.


THIS

Take Sly, his producer, his movie, and the entire situation for all it's worth. There are crack addict, curb sleeping POS nobody's showing up on national TV and becoming famous because they SAY they fucked some famous actress. You are being FUCKED by a famous actor....contact the Hollywood hacks, start holding press conferences, and take this for EVERYTHING it's worth.

[Joep]

Give them 24 hours to pay up or you go Very public as one of the other Devils suggested. Hey, you have to eat too. Their eating Real Good and leaving you on the hook!...with all of the money and fame they have?!!! F 'em HARD!!! That's what they're trying to do to you....and after you jumped through hoops for these dildos!

If the movie gets released...and If they remember to include your company's name at the bottom of the credits.......you can't buy food and necessities with movie credits! You need the 5K. Or, you create your own publicity at their well deserved expense

[Soup_Monger]

Don't forget to mention JerzeeDevil numerous times during the broadcast. :thumbsup: :spam:

[cornnutt]

I call.bs. Anyway you can call Rambo? See if he knows whats goin' on? Try one more time, then go public.

[Horizonod]

I just sent the producer an email telling him we will require payment.

I hate to be a whore but they are kind of invading my street corner and effecting my business. Maybe I should just smack them upside the head with this sock full of quarters.:RXX:

If we continue to get the bums rush I'll consider getting whorey with the story.

Any suggestions on who shovels this kind of shit most effectively? Names, links, email addys, phone #s welcome.

[Horizonod]

Give them 24 hours to pay up or you go Very public as one of the other Devils suggested. Hey, you have to eat too. Their eating Real Good and leaving you on the hook!...with all of the money and fame they have?!!! F 'em HARD!!! That's what they're trying to do to you....and after you jumped through hoops for these dildos!

If the movie gets released...and If they remember to include your company's name at the bottom of the credits.......you can't buy food and necessities with movie credits! You need the 5K. Or, you create your own publicity at their well deserved expense

That's kind of what I've been thinking.

They want to wave the possability of some future "publicity" in my face and it only costs me $5K now.

I can get my $5K AND even more publicity much sooner with a few well placed calls.

I think they call that "having your cake and eating it too". I've always heard that can't be done but I think we found a way.:bwah:

[Nuphoria]

There must be a ton of websites and papers over there who LOVE to dish this kind of bullshit out - I'm on the wrong side of the pond so I don't know who's best to go to over there.

Go for it... make your 5k and then some :semper:

[ratstuph]

What say my fellow Devils? Is this bullshit? Am I getting my skivies in a twist prematurely?

Well given that you have that Olympic gold medal in skivvy twisting, that is always a good question to ask. Mention in the movie is going to be brief (get it, "brief" :shockedevil: ) at best, and could be only product placement, which doesn't advertise your shop and could always get cut in editing. I think they owe you the money, not an opportunity. I would consider Fox (if Sly & Hollywood can be cast as liberal villains, you have a winner) &/or Entertainment Tonight. Hell go on Craig Ferguson and get hit on by a gay robot. Now there's an opportunity.
all da best,
rats...

[Clydetz]

Get the money for the knives; don't accept the offer for mentioning your name in the credits! The movie might 'bomb' and might not even make it to the theaters. How did Rambo get in touch with you in the first place... telephone, e-mail, USPS? See if he's on FaceBook!

[englishmark]

I reckon if you go to the media......." you will never do business in this town again".

Play smart, either insist on payment, lawyer up if the situation worsens.

Or let them keep them insist on all rights for the movie knife and advertise the knife as such to collectors, charge a bit more for the limited edition to the collectors and make back your 5 Grand.

You get to name the knife as well............you could call it " The Sly Bastard"

[Blademan101]

What these "movie" moguls should do is pay you for the blades, and then give you a mention in the movie, because of all the road work you put in to accommodate them, and their movie. That is the right thing to do. If they don't pay the blade bill, I would not just take it. I would do whatever I felt necessary to get paid, and not get screwed. Takes a lot of fucking nerve to stiff somebody trying to make an honest living. Especially when that somebody, went out of their way to help you. The fuck of it is both of these jerk offs probably carry more then 5 grand around in their pockets. Can you define "piece of shit" , yeah find a photo of these two shitballs!!!

[Mike Stewart]

This kind of thing is for the Manufacturer - not a retail dealer.

You need to make a huge stink and get your money.

You have nothing to gain by sitting still for a 5k Fucking.

I have had knives that I made in about a hundred Movies and or T.V. Shows over the last 30 years.

I ALWAYS know up front if they are looking for a freebie for screen credits or if the Prop House is paying me.

That has to be spelled out in front - these guys are just ripping you off.

I only now use one prop house for knives - all others have to just pay cash.

You need to get paid.



Mike

[Horizonod]

I reckon if you go to the media......." you will never do business in this town again".

Play smart, either insist on payment, lawyer up if the situation worsens.

Or let them keep them insist on all rights for the movie knife and advertise the knife as such to collectors, charge a bit more for the limited edition to the collectors and make back your 5 Grand.

You get to name the knife as well............you could call it " The Sly Bastard"

Sly has been buying from us for quite some time. I feel strange even calling him "Sly" but that's what he said to call him so I fight back the "Mr. Stallones". I've spoken with Sly on the phone many times over the past couple of years. He has Qs about knives or wants something custom or just "wadda you got dats real big and come out the front". We've even talked about doing a knife line of his design or at least his name. I actually floated the name "Slyce" or "Sly-s-s" in a Cobraesc logo (hissing snake, Cobra (like his movie), etc. We've gotten along great but nothing ever goes beyond the talking stages other than purchases which have always gone very well. The producer has also bought knives from us for movies with no problem. I don't know what's up this time unless they're both broke and are stalling, but I doubt it.

If this went public the pub would far outweight any loss of business over sour grapes.

Actually Joyce said that when he bought, or ordered, the first blue HALO, which was already on sale, he asked "eh,..do I git some sorta discount er sumtin?". She politely side stepped the question but,......a discount? Really?

[Buffalohump]

Its a well known fact that the wealthier people are, the cheaper they are. Hollywood people are the worst because they are famous and therefore expect to get everything for free because they are promoting your business by just being there. What I dont understand is why you didnt get payment up front like you would from a normal customer... did you think because these people are in the movies they are somehow more honest than everyone else? Just the opposite I'm sure... :bwah:

Why dont you call Sly up and ask him for the money, seeing as how you are on first name terms with him?


Sly has been buying from us for quite some time. I feel strange even calling him "Sly" but that's what he said to call him so I fight back the "Mr. Stallones". I've spoken with Sly on the phone many times over the past couple of years. He has Qs about knives or wants something custom or just "wadda you got dats real big and come out the front". We've even talked about doing a knife line of his design or at least his name. I actually floated the name "Slyce" or "Sly-s-s" in a Cobraesc logo (hissing snake, Cobra (like his movie), etc. We've gotten along great but nothing ever goes beyond the talking stages other than purchases which have always gone very well. The producer has also bought knives from us for movies with no problem. I don't know what's up this time unless they're both broke and are stalling, but I doubt it.

If this went public the pub would far outweight any loss of business over sour grapes.

Actually Joyce said that when he bought, or ordered, the first blue HALO, which was already on sale, he asked "eh,..do I git some sorta discount er sumtin?". She politely side stepped the question but,......a discount? Really?

[Amotek]

Hey Adrian is the person you need to talk to. She'll straighten the bum out! Pay up Rocky.

[TacoMan5000]

Get the bottomfeeders at TMZ to follow him around.

[GEEZER]

Its a well known fact that the wealthier people are, the cheaper they are. Hollywood people are the worst because they are famous and therefore expect to get everything for free because they are promoting your business by just being there. What I dont understand is why you didnt get payment up front like you would from a normal customer... did you think because these people are in the movies they are somehow more honest than everyone else? Just the opposite I'm sure... :bwah:

Why dont you call Sly up and ask him for the money, seeing as how you are on first name terms with him?


After all he "drew first blood".

[dax0007]

Man so sorry to hear this!! It all makes sense.. My EX had some experience dealing with celebrities and would get stiff on gigs and stuff..

Stick to your guns and I hope you dont have to eat the 5k.. If worse comes to worse I am sure some of us on JD can come up with good ideas to SHOVE IT UP THERE ASS!!! Plus exploiting them with the ACTORS UNIONS and other entities could help..

[Tinysd]

I am guilty of reading the celebrity rags when I visit my sister :color: and can tell you that there are always small blurbs about so and so owing for something. The way it is written, it seems like the behavior is not a big deal.

Hell, most of the shit in there is not true, so I don't think going public would give you the results you are looking for.

Not to be a dick, but if you had treated him like any other customer instead of a celebrity, this would not have happened.

[Horizonod]

It was a surprise to me that these knives were not being paid for as they went out. At one point we had a card on file and I thought Joyce was using that. As it turns out that card had changed and his assistant promised Joyce a new card number but she would have to get it from Sly. They were ready to start shooting so Joyce sent them on their word.

Another reason is that I know we will get paid. We can either do it nicely, not so nicely or trench warfare. One way or the other there are ways to make people of celebrity pay or wish they had.

[SugarSkull]

Going public probably will not draw as much attention as you may wish.

Google the actor's lawsuits. These are big bucks, not that yours is any different.

Take it to the Judge.

[TPetsch]

People love to negotiate so everyone feels like a winner in the argument.
So, if you find yourself speaking to the producer again and you still get the runaround perhaps you and he would consider meeting in the middle, say, $2500 plus a "Knives Supplied by ..." in the credits.

[VampyreWolf]

Just tell them you want a measly 1% of the movie profits instead :signhere:

[Mike Stewart]

People love to negotiate so everyone feels like a winner in the argument.
So, if you find yourself speaking to the producer again and you still get the runaround perhaps you and he would consider meeting in the middle, say, $2500 plus a "Knives Supplied by ..." in the credits.

That is totally Counterproductive.

I just said above that I had knives in over a Hundred Movies and TV Shows.

Did anyone here know that ?

No ?

That is because nobody pays much attention to screen credits. I know I don't.

There was only one Rambo Knife and there will never be another - Get the Money and forget the screen credits.

[Obijuan Kenobe]

Mr. BRKT is correct.

Get paid. That's how it's always been with you and him, so why should that suddenly change now without first there being an agreement about the change??

Free shit for rich folks, while typically American, is not a mantra you and your business are required to observe.

obi

[subrosa]

Did anyone here know that ?

No ?



No, but I will keep my eye out now...:devil1:

I know they have a guns in movies, wiki, but never saw a knives in movies guide.

Anyway, besides the point. Get the money, considering the price on some of Sly's watches...5k should be pocket change, so I am not sure what the hold up would be, especially with the above/beyond service you provide to him.

[kayakjax]

Just tell them you want a measly 1% of the movie profits instead :signhere:

Art Buchwald wrote a script that was "borrowed" by Paramount Pictures to make the wildly popular Eddie Murphy movie "Coming to America". After suing Paramount Pictures, Mr. Buchwald was awarded a share of the profits.

They pencil-whipped him, saying they didn't actually make a profit despite the movie making $288 million (in 1990 dollars). He had to sue again, and finally received an out of court settlement.

It's pretty hard (and expensive) out-lawyer a Hollywood studio.

[RoadFish]

I don't know your State laws, but if I could, I would take him to small claims, get a judgment, seize something like his car, if it wasn't leased, sell it, take out your claim and give him the change in quarters in jars of honey.

[GEEZER]

Mr. BRKT is correct.



Free shit for rich folks, while typically American, is not a mantra you and your business are required to observe.

obi


Or lets try free chit for us po'folk.

[englishmark]

I want to see a thread in the positive minus forum and get that Italian Stallion here to tell his side of the story, let him face the wrath of The JD.

[kayakjax]

I want to see a thread in the positive minus forum and get that Italian Stallion here to tell his side of the story, let him face the wrath of The JD.

Take it to The Pit!

"Sly, Come On Down!"

:bwah::bwah::bwah:

[firebolt]

repo a car from him ? untill he pays

you know take the one west coast customs build ( if he has paid that one ? )
was a movie prop after all
the little guy from WC customs is also camara horny, i bet he gave theme away

:bwah:

[DaBird]

That is totally Counterproductive.

I just said above that I had knives in over a Hundred Movies and TV Shows.

Did anyone here know that ?

No ?

That is because nobody pays much attention to screen credits. I know I don't.

There was only one Rambo Knife and there will never be another - Get the Money and forget the screen credits.


THE voice of wisedom right there !!!!! Fuck DaCredits --- GET DaCash:pissedevil:

[Mpsecare]

This actor is FAMOUS for his movies about the underdog coming out on top.


I can't believe Adam Sandler would do that to someone : (

[Harley Rider]

We need an e-mail for the thief and the JD boys an give him some shit!!!

Allen:devilzeek

[Horizonod]

Emailed this morning,.....no reply yet.

I really don't want to lose them as clients but who needs clients that don't pay? I'm confident we did everything they asked and more.

The bottom line is that there was no discussion or deal to take anything but payment for these knives and payment is what I expect to get. The selling price was exactly what was listed on our site at the time with no upcharges for all of the "above and beyond" we provided.

Once again: :ssad: No good deed goes unpunished.:ssad:

I'm not pissed yet, just annoyed and feeling a bit bent over. If need be I'll take it to the court of public opinion but not until I give them a chance to make it good.

The legal system is for the birds with only one sure outcome, the lawyers get to feather their nests.

I've considered contacting many possible media personalities but I don't watch allot of TV. Who likes dishing dirt on celebs and wouldn't get their knickers in a knot about killer knives being involved??

[Peter Lezard]

First of all, this truly does suck man. :(

Dumb question; do you think you could get your 5k back by selling the knives as "WAY COOL!! ONLY A FEW MADE TO SLY'S SPECS TO BE USED IN AN UPCOMING HOLLYWOOD BLOCKBUSTER!! YOU NEED ONE BRO!!!!"

You would know much better than me, but that is my thought just sitting here...

[Derespina Knives]

Would hiring a "Collection Agency" be possible? This is a ridiculous story, mean $5k worth of anything is pissing in a bucket for these guys...

Publicity of any kind is good as has been said here. I was offered a couple times to have a couple knives in some movies and was offered no money. Only credit.... I know very well from being a former Movie buff that I rarely read the credits but for the occasional starlet who's name I don't know with the nice rack. So knives in movies listed in the credits are usually only of interest to knife people specifically. That is IF they cannot call the knife model in the scene from memory.

Go public!!!!!!

[SugarSkull]

I don't know your State laws, but if I could, I would take him to small claims, get a judgment, seize something like his car, if it wasn't leased, sell it, take out your claim and give him the change in quarters in jars of honey.

This is the best course of action.

We all are pissed, but don't let that over ride your reason.

The worst time to make a decision of outlandish proportion is during a highly emotional
state.

During my years plumbing we had a wealthy customer withhold our fee. So a lien was placed upon their property, a restaurant theater that we piped.

They could not open until we were paid.

The check arrived the next week.

[tmbrcrafter]

I think posting this story here and bitching about it works well.....

[SZiehr]

The only way I would take publicity over cash is if they rewrote the script so that when he uses the knife, someone asks him where he got it and he proceeds to tell them your company name, address and phone number, and that you're the greatest knife seller he knows. That should be worth something. Oh yeah, and he should also say he found out about you on JD.

[Horizonod]

First of all, this truly does suck man. :(

Dumb question; do you think you could get your 5k back by selling the knives as "WAY COOL!! ONLY A FEW MADE TO SLY'S SPECS TO BE USED IN AN UPCOMING HOLLYWOOD BLOCKBUSTER!! YOU NEED ONE BRO!!!!"

You would know much better than me, but that is my thought just sitting here...

Absolutely, but until the knife is seen in Stallones hand in a hit movie it's just a limited edition red HALO V and some unsubstantiated hype. We have to sell them now because we can't sit on a $20K investment for 6 or 8 months until the movie comes out. Right now they are selling at a slight premium but nothing comparred to the way they would sell or what we could get for a limited run of 47 knives that are being actively hunted down by rabid movie fans. Short supply + high demand + $$. Right now there is no driven demand.

Having the $5K they owe us would allow us to keep some back and that is the only way we are going to realize any bonus for having put our neck out on these.

Filing a small claim would be counter productive. In NC the limit is $5K, which is less than what they owe. A lawyer will charge $2K to take the case and in most small claims legal fees are not recoverable unless certain conditions are met. If it becomes nessesary to go to court it will go to superior court but I'm sure it won't come to that.

There are dozens of free ways to get state and federal agencies to rattle their cage,IE: Attorney General, BBB, FTC and many more.

We'll get paid. It just shouldn't be like this.

[falcon125]

Call Tony, have him call Kiefer and Kiefer will stab Sly in the ass with a Halo.

I cant believe an actor would lie. Whats the world coming to.

[Peter Lezard]

Absolutely, but until the knife is seen in Stallones hand in a hit movie it's just a limited edition red HALO V and some unsubstantiated hype. We have to sell them now because we can't sit on a $20K investment for 6 or 8 months until the movie comes out. Right now they are selling at a slight premium but nothing comparred to the way they would sell or what we could get for a limited run of 47 knives that are being actively hunted down by rabid movie fans. Short supply + high demand + $$. Right now there is no driven demand.

Having the $5K they owe us would allow us to keep some back and that is the only way we are going to realize any bonus for having put our neck out on these.

Filing a small claim would be counter productive. In NC the limit is $5K, which is less than what they owe. A lawyer will charge $2K to take the case and in most small claims legal fees are not recoverable unless certain conditions are met. If it becomes nessesary to go to court it will go to superior court but I'm sure it won't come to that.

There are dozens of free ways to get state and federal agencies to rattle their cage,IE: Attorney General, BBB, FTC and many more.

We'll get paid. It just shouldn't be like this.

But..........you have Sly's word that these will be seen in a movie! Oh wait.. I see the problem. :( He really left you guys holding the bag.

[Glenn]

Absolutely, but until the knife is seen in Stallones hand in a hit movie it's just a limited edition red HALO V and some unsubstantiated hype. We have to sell them now because we can't sit on a $20K investment for 6 or 8 months until the movie comes out. Right now they are selling at a slight premium but nothing comparred to the way they would sell or what we could get for a limited run of 47 knives that are being actively hunted down by rabid movie fans. Short supply + high demand + $$. Right now there is no driven demand.

Having the $5K they owe us would allow us to keep some back and that is the only way we are going to realize any bonus for having put our neck out on these.

Filing a small claim would be counter productive. In NC the limit is $5K, which is less than what they owe. A lawyer will charge $2K to take the case and in most small claims legal fees are not recoverable unless certain conditions are met. If it becomes nessesary to go to court it will go to superior court but I'm sure it won't come to that.

There are dozens of free ways to get state and federal agencies to rattle their cage,IE: Attorney General, BBB, FTC and many more.

We'll get paid. It just shouldn't be like this.

You can file a small claims case usually there is a 5K max to the system, but you would recover a portion of your money and you can be represented by yourself, no lawyers getting "fluff money" as long as your ducks are in a row.

OR Call Judge Judy, her TV staff would eat this up ! Talk about exposure , also a 5K cap on settlement, but what the heck .

[12345678910]

Get the $

Fuck screen credit.


If the knife is in the movie, knife people will recognize it and find you as the only supplier of the limited edition red - that is until the mfg fucks you & does a special run to take advantage of it.

(no agreement with the mfg on the exclusivity of that right?)

Send invoices with registered mail and start a paper trail.

The second you register a lien or court action against a celeb, the tabloid news will be all over it - they pay workers in the system to feed them this stuff.

[The Coach]

This is the same fuck-wad that made all this money acting like a man, shooting everything in sight, but he's a poster boy for gun control for people like us. :ranting3:

[Sandy Morrissey]

If you conducted any portion of your transactiion using the United States Postal Service--------contact the Postal Inspector's in your area. They frown on people using government agencys to defraud.

[FriskyDingo]

Damn Nick, I had no idea it got this bad Brother :( I wish I could get one of these from you so you could at least recover some of the cost... fucking expensive MT's :(

[Horizonod]

LOVE the Judge Judy idea!!!!

Update:

I received this email tonight at 11:16 pm.

Nick please send me an invoice
Kevin

Uuuuuuh. But we sent you an invoice several days ago. That's why you called,.....remember?

I'm wondering if we should add milage for the two 50 mile, one way trips to UPS. I drive a Suburban so it would be like 200 miles @ $6.00 (jk) a mile and a $125.00 per hour fee for our time . Call it a milage and service fee.

Rediculous how filthy rich phuqhesax can prolong a regular persons agony of not being paid. I'm sure they are feeling inconvenienced after all. :violindevil::ross::madaddy:

As far as "having the only red HALO Vs available". That's true at the moment but the manufactuerer could easily cash in with another run close to release. We do have a verbal exclusive but...................:schmoove:

[SZiehr]

Well, the current IRS mileage rate is $0.51 per mile, but then you have time, handling charges, shipping charges, rush service fees, credit fees....

[Horizonod]

Well, the current IRS mileage rate is $0.51 per mile, but then you have time, handling charges, shipping charges, rush service fees, credit fees....

and interest.....

Yeah,...yeah,...keep going..........L.O.L.

They do deserve it but a deal is a deal and we wouldn't spring anything like that on them even if they do have it coming. All we asked was some appreciation but it looks like that's not gonna happen.:shockedevil:

[Buffalohump]

Dont worry about that, I hear Marfione is a real stand up guy.... :ropeman:




As far as "having the only red HALO Vs available". That's true at the moment but the manufactuerer could easily cash in with another run close to release. We do have a verbal exclusive but...................:schmoove:

[Glover]

Rich or Famous, people are still fuckin idiots. Remember, you're not as important as them though.

[Horizonod]

Rich or Famous, people are still fuckin idiots. Remember, you're not as important as them though.

That's the attitude that pisses me off.

The Expedibles cost $82 Million to produce. They have to be paying somebody for something.

I'll settle for screen credit if Stallone and all other highly paid contributors, including him, does the same.

THEY do this to make a living and they get paid VERY hansomely. Why would they think anybody else should donate what they do for a much more meger living just to increase their take??

While The Expendibles cost $85 Million to produce it took in $35 Million the FIRST WEEKEND. That doesn't include all of the side money brought in by expensive "product placement". So after the first month the dump trucks full of monet brought in are profit.

[spyken]

wow, I didn't expect Rambo to be so cheap and lacking in integrity.

ask him to give you 10 of his Jimmy Lile Rambo knives and call it even.

[ratstuph]

I got bad news for you buddy, he still owes me for the last two of his movies I saw.
all da best,
rats...

[wirenut]

Nobody got rich by spending money.. add fame on top of that and they're "entitled" to fucking a deal. But, by law, they aren't... You need to get the meanest son-of-a-bitch lawyer that wants to make a name for himself, and get your fuckin' money.. Long as you didn't sign anything sayin you want movie credits instead, you're good.. Then the ball's in your court. How much are they willing to spend to protect their anonymity? Rambo's knife is a signature item. Everybody knows about it.. The CASE might go big, or they'll pay.. it's a win-win. Unless there's something you arent saying, it's a slam dunk. Lawyer up.

[Buffalohump]

Only two? By my calculations he only made two in his entire career that were worth a damn... :bwah:


I got bad news for you buddy, he still owes me for the last two of his movies I saw.
all da best,
rats...

[crushgrip]

TMZ! Fuck that old bastard. The media would eat that shit up. Screw the credits thing. Have you ever paid attention to that stuff.

[firebolt]

just a brain fart from me,

did someone ever thought off the fact that the man, perhaps don't even know he has not paid for the knives

you know bizzy bizzy bizzy..
PA's sweeping up the after him to pick the down to earth things


just a thought

[Clydetz]

I know I never thought of anything like that in my entire life.

[RNST]

I just read Sly's bio on IMDB and found this little bit about him:

Expelled from 14 schools for antisocial and violent behavior before the age of 13.

Born in the charity ward of a hospital in the New York ghetto of Hell's Kitchen. At his birth, the doctor's forceps accidentally severed a nerve in his cheek, leaving him with his trademark droopy mouth.

Was voted the pupil most likely to die in the electric chair.

Who knew it would be over screwin somebody over 5K worth of MT's

:bwah:

[firebolt]

I know I never thought of anything like that in my entire life.

your a lucky man

i order stuff, and i really don't know if or when there getting paid for
( no my not knives :bwah: i make very very sure, that the transactions are nice for all involved )

but my accounting lady takes care off the compagny bills,
and she has here own agenda who where and what gets paid,

[Horizonod]

just a brain fart from me,

did someone ever thought off the fact that the man, perhaps don't even know he has not paid for the knives

you know bizzy bizzy bizzy..
PA's sweeping up the after him to pick the down to earth things


just a thought

Oh,......he knows. I'm baffled why we are now dealing with the producer. Stallone, or his assitant, placed every order.

He was looking for a large knife so as a courtesy, with his first HALO V, we sent him a Makora 2, a paragon estiletto 13 inch otf, a red and black paragon Para X OTF, A protech large Don and a 11 inch Latama Italian stiletto with abalone scales so he could evaluate them. That was with his first order over a month ago. We sent a prepaid UPS label with them and we haven't gotten those back either despite numerous promisses from numerous people they would be shipping them back.

I'd call that damn fine customer service, on our part, but a remarkable and inconsiderate breech of trust on theirs.

It was the red paragon para X that gave him the idea for the red HALO v in the first place.

How many times does the old saying "no good deed goes unpunished" come into play with this one customer?

[supersuby]

Sucks this happened to you man and i really hope you get paid. I do work now and have done work in the past with big name companies and celebrities and learned my lesson real quick ( by getting stiffed ). Get everything in writing and get paid!

[ilovekittens]

Sounds like you bent over too far and they took you for a ride. I have bought several knives from you with the pay up front program. It's a pretty good policy. Don't get caught up in the glitz and glamour. If Arnold comes knocking on your door, give him a quote, and get the money up front. :devil1: ILK

[Tank Buster]

Any updates on this? If they refuse to pay you back, then go public.

[Mpsecare]

im crossing my fingers that this shows up on http://www.fark.com or some similar site. That would be a great discussion.

[Horizonod]

We're sending a "revised" invoice, their 3rd, that includes fees for personally taking 2 packages to Asheville after hours to get them sent when they HAD to have them. We were willing to do these things as a favor but since they weren't appreciated we'll consider them a billable service. Other service fees and late payment may also be considered.

They already have 2 invoices in hand. Asking for another just seems a way to stall us again. Ironically every new invoice gets just a little higher than the last.

[Mike Stewart]

Unless I am mistaken - you have just given them a readon not to pay you.

You should have stuck with the original amount.

They think they are right and you are giving them the Ammo to make them feel correct.

[Horizonod]

I don't think "they feel right", I think they are trying to flim flam us and I think asking for a third invoice only bolsters that.

[Derespina Knives]

Definitely what Mike just said. It's more reason for them to not pay and use it against you if you are tacking on more fees.

Asking for another invoice, is just the run around. It just prolongs their time to pay if they ever do.

You deserve every penny and more for the hassle but they think they're right. They always do, and they're usually wrong.

[Glenn]

Unless I am mistaken - you have just given them a readon not to pay you.

You should have stuck with the original amount.

They think they are right and you are giving them the Ammo to make them feel correct.

+ one, Time to look up Judge Judys phone number :bwah:

[kayakjax]

Remember who you're dealing with here:

In 1998, after the murder of comic Phil Hartman, Stallone urged the abolition of Americans' right to bear arms. Speaking in London, Stallone said, "Until America, door to door, takes every handgun, this is what you're gonna have. It's pathetic. It really is pathetic. It's sad. We're living in the Dark Ages over there." Stallone has always been politically active, but his politics defy easy labels. He has written checks for candidates as far to the left as Jerry Brown and Barbara Boxer, and as far right as John Ashcroft and Rick Santorum.

In 1999, he was sued by five of his former cooks and housecleaners, who alleged they had been searched daily to ascertain that they were not stealing silverware. Some of the plaintiffs said they had been fired for breaking bizarre rules about avoiding eye contact with Stallone and his mother. (Stallone's mother offers "rumpology readings", claiming she can see the future in customers' buttock prints.)
nndb Source (http://www.nndb.com/people/761/000023692/)




A slightly different version of the lawsuit:


Hollywood hard man Sylvester Stallone is being sued by five of his former cooks and cleaners, who claim they were fired for breaking rules which included not making eye contact with the actor or his mother.

The group were hired as temporary staff in 1995, but say they were dismissed six days into their 15-day contracts. They are seeking $1.5m in damages from the star of the Rocky and Rambo series of films.

The group say Stallone's wife, Jennifer Flavin, told them they could be fired if they looked directly into the actor's eyes, and they should "back out and vanish immediately" when Stallone entered a room at his former Miami estate.

They were also allegedly banned from speaking to Stallone's mother, Jackie - "nor will you let her talk to you" - and from eating or drinking anything from the house.

The suit claims they were required to undergo daily searches, and maids were to check guests' suitcases "to see if they took towels or silverware" when leaving.

Jackie Stallone is said to have given each of the employees a pen and a signed photograph of herself for Christmas. The lawsuit says Jennifer Flavin accused the employees of stealing the items, and fired them for speaking to Ms Stallone.

The workers' lawyer, Ellis Rubin, said: "Sylvester Stallone is no Rocky or Rambo in real life. Here is a man of earnings, probably $1,000 a minute when he works, and millions when he doesn't work. And he beat some housekeepers and cooks out of a small amount of money."

But the Stallones' attorney, Martin Singer, called the claims "purely fictional".

He said: "They were fired for absolute cause; they didn't perform the work as requested. We're confident we will dispose of the lawsuit quickly."

BBC Source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/543285.stm)




From what I understand about the tv judge shows; BOTH parties must agree to have the matter tried on the show. There is no way his people would allow this.

[Mpsecare]

Man I miss Phil Hartman.
A part of comedy died that day.

[juiceman]

they prob have sticker shock from that special forum pricing you gave them.... why not post that itemized receipt?

[Horizonod]

they prob have sticker shock from that special forum pricing you gave them.... why not post that itemized receipt?

The price they were charged were the same prices listed on site.


The bullshit continues.

.............Now the producer is telling us that we, and Microtech, need to sign "product placement releases" in order for US to get paid.

[RoadFish]

What's wrong with that as long as the product placement agreement stipulates that you get paid? The problem might be that you don't have the rights to the Microtech name for the placement and now they will want to get paid also. Is the Microtech name visible in the production?

[ratstuph]

My guess about "what's wrong with that" is Tony. He would fuck up a wet dream.
all da best,
rats...

[Mike Stewart]

That is Bullshit - they are just stalling.

There is no such thing needed for them to pay you.

Tell him to pay up right now or that the next thing you will be signing will be the authorization for your lawyer to sue him.

[RoadFish]

They are playing a game here. Product placements are usually paid for by the company or person placing the product for publicity reasons in a production. This was not your case in the beginning. You simply sold a product. You should keep it at that, get paid or get your product back, lick your wounds and learn a lesson.

[Tank Buster]

You need to stop following their little games and give them a strict deadline to pay. Call them up to tell them this, and if possible record the phone call or email them and save all the messages. If they have not payed you by the deadline you have given them, then sue them and you have evidence to testify against them.

Five grand may be a lot to you but to them it is literally a mere fifty bucks. So, there is absolutely no fucking reason at all for them not to be paying you back, unless they are broke, but that is highly unlikely.

[Horizonod]

I agree it's just ANOTHER stall,...my question is why? Do they not have the cash? Unlikely with a $40 million budget.

No good reason whatsoever to sign any "release". I highly doubt the "Microtech" name being visible and we are the reatailer, not the manufacturer. These knives were sold without any such stipulations and the I'm sure they don't get releases from everybody who has anything show up in the filming, that would be a nightmare.

He said if we don't sign a "release" he won't put the knife in the movie. I have half a mind to call his bluff and tell him that since the knife in question is MY PROPERTY, unless and until it is paid for, that I expressly forbide them to use my property in the movie.

Never in a million years did I expect this type of treatment.

[ratstuph]

While I am just as likely to get pissy over anything as the next guy, you are probably best served to just stay on point. "You owe me this $$, if you don't pay by date, I will begin legal proceedings. Here's another invoice."

[Mike Stewart]

Give them 24 hours to pay you and then file suit if they don't pay.

You are spending way too much time fooling around with this.

$5000.00 is a lot of money to anyone - including them.

You need to just take a hard line and get your money or the knives back.

Everything you have heard about this guy is true and you need to just not care if he ever buys another knife from you.

Get your money or the knives.

[Horizonod]

I may be stepping on my dick here but I'm through kissing ass.

This producer guy told me earlier today that "if we didn't sign a release he wouldn't put the knives in the movie".

I just wrote him and told him that since these knives were ordered but never paid for that they remain our property and that I expressly forbid them to use the knives in the movie without express permission and that the knives were no longer for sale. I told him to return the knives in unused original condition in the pre paid UPS mailer we had already sent Stallone so it wouldn't cost him anything.

I reminded him that if they had done any filming with these knives they had done so without permission so they will either have to scrap the footage and reshoot it or we can negotiate a fair settlement. I reminded him that if they had paid for the knives they could do whatever they wanted with them but since they haven't,...they can't.

I hate bigshots that think they can shit on people they view as lesser than themselves. I hope they have shot footage with OUR knives. Then the shoe will be on the other foot.:demented:

I'm serious about the knives no longer being for sale. I don't want the money, I want the knives back. My perogative. If he says he'll pay for them, I'm saying, sorry bud, that ship has sailed. Send them back or go to court. If he says they already shot footage,..... sorry bud, not my problem so no big deal, shoot the scenes again. Shooting only costs $100K a day and I'm sure you can do it in less time if you're careful. You don't care about my $$$$, why should I give a rats ass about yours? It's not about the money anymore. It's about doing to others as others have done to you.

Joyce is on the phone right now with a friend in LA that's got a hook up or two. I'm done. Let the embarasement insue.

[Towelie]

:popcorn:

this thread is more entertaining to me than any of Stallones late movies since Rocky and First Blood. I like the hard line you took with them in the end, Nick. It sucks that you had to go thru all of this though. I hope you end up far in the grey when all is said and done with the MT special run.

[Horizonod]

Here's the release they sent. It sounds kinda like, according to the release, that there is some intrinsic value connected with them using a persons property in their movie. I wonder how much value there is????

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vQ3UvrTopK0/TjCtkk4R39I/AAAAAAAAA0k/qaiFdqHd650/s512/headshot%252520movie%252520release.jpg

[falcon125]

So much drama you could sell the story to hollywood.:bwah:

[Horizonod]

:popcorn:

this thread is more entertaining to me than any of Stallones late movies since Rocky and First Blood. I like the hard line you took with them in the end, Nick. It sucks that you had to go thru all of this though. I hope you end up far in the grey when all is said and done with the MT special run.

How you doin AJ? Yeah, it kinda sucks but I think in the end it'll work out. My attitude is that if they want to waste my time they'll probably wish they hadn't in the end.

I really hope they have already shot scenes. If they have this guys got some serrious crow to eat. I sent Stallone a copy to his personal email just in case he doesn't know the whole story. I also told them that if it was publicity I was after I'm sure I could drum some up with this story but it would probably be pretty embarassing to them.:bwah:

We'll see.........................

[SugarSkull]

How you doin AJ? Yeah, it kinda sucks but I think in the end it'll work out. My attitude is that if they want to waste my time they'll probably wish they hadn't in the end.

I really hope they have already shot scenes. If they have this guys got some serrious crow to eat. I sent Stallone a copy to his personal email just in case he doesn't know the whole story. I also told them that if it was publicity I was after I'm sure I could drum some up with this story but it would probably be pretty embarassing to them.:bwah:

We'll see.........................

Take Stallone's name off of the knives you are selling in your shop. The movie also.

They can change a movie title anytime.

[Glenn]

Oh forget it :ross:

[RoadFish]

Here's the release they sent. It sounds kinda like, according to the release, that there is some intrinsic value connected with them using a persons property in their movie. I wonder how much value there is????

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vQ3UvrTopK0/TjCtkk4R39I/AAAAAAAAA0k/qaiFdqHd650/s512/headshot%252520movie%252520release.jpg

Whatever you do, don't sign this document. You don't have the rights to the knife logo, trademark, etc.. All you did was sell knives as a dealer. They are playing with you, as you seem to be playing with them. As several people have said, you sold a product, with the reasonable expectation of being paid. Follow Mike's advice and demand payment, or the return of your merchandise. If they do not respond, file suit.

[tmbrcrafter]

There are no victims today, only volunteers- get everything in writing

[Uz4u]

Wow, This shit Suuuuuucccckkksss ...... :devilzeek

so we have confirmed that Stalone is the actor in question? I'm torn between two desired outcomes

1. You being payed IN FULL for everything this venture cost you and receiving a lengthy apology letter. Afterwords I get to watch Stalone kill people with a red Halo V in The Expendables 2


2. Every one of the rich assholes involved being sued for 5x what these knives are worth and having the whole thing blow up in their faces, publicly



this is bullshit and people with this kind of money have no reason not to pay

On the bright side, you have created the sexiest Halo Vs in existence

[Horizonod]

Wow, This shit Suuuuuucccckkksss ...... :devilzeek

so we have confirmed that Stalone is the actor in question? I'm torn between two desired outcomes

1. You being payed IN FULL for everything this venture cost you and receiving a lengthy apology letter. Afterwords I get to watch Stalone kill people with a red Halo V in The Expendables 2


2. Every one of the rich assholes involved being sued for 5x what these knives are worth and having the whole thing blow up in their faces, publicly



this is bullshit and people with this kind of money have no reason not to pay

On the bright side, you have created the sexiest Halo Vs in existence

I have to agree. The red doesn't apeal to everybody but I've loved the red black combo since my first sighting of a red and black 454 malibu SS.:ross:

[au5t3n5]

This situation sounds all bad.

@Horizonod

I laud you for standing your ground and trying to evoke some response out of them. They are playing hard to get and it's stupid that you were so kind putting in all that effort and they just stab you in the back (no pun intended).

Honestly, asking for multiple knives, then having one in a custom color, they should have known it would be expensive. They got more than great service and should pay up for what they received. Sure $5,000 sounds like a lot and even in the bigger picture it is a decent dent in any wallet, but really isn't much. A movie ticket runs around $8 (let's average matinee and regular tickets). So they'd need to sell 625 tickets to make up for it. That not many people considering the number of people in the states. I'm sure thousands will see it opening night and even more while it is in theaters. Heck, 625 people, thats like only a handful of theaters across the states on opening night. The new Harry Potter grossed ~$92 million on opening night alone. Even if the new sly movie pulls in that amount throughout its theater career (which I'm sure it will) it will have enough to payback the $40 million initial movie cost and have an extra $52 million left over. Lets cut that in half and say that goes to the producers/actors, and we are left with $26 million. Even then it is 1/5200( ~0.0019)% of the total revenue. I don't know why they would be so stingy over $5,000 and then furthermore try to bribe you with movie credits and the notion that you can get revenue by marking the knife something similar to the "Rambo knife" to get even more profit. Personally, I would rather be compensated for the knives with money than a small line in credits. Sure, thats neat, but like easter eggs in video games, few will see it, and if they do, they'd have to be looking for it. No one watches through credits nowadays.

Honestly, getting your name in the credits wouldn't matter. People are interested in the knife and the knife alone. If you are trying to find a knife from a movie, you probably aren't going to be interested in much else. Look at what happened to NCIS and ZT. I don't know if they were ever mentioned in the credits (ZT or Kershaw) but who looks at credits when you have the internet? A bunch of non knife people got the ZT301 because of the show regardless of their enthusiasm for knives, and I bet they just went to ebay or just googled and bought it from where they could.

[Mpsecare]

This situation sounds all bad.

@Horizonod

I laud you for standing your ground and trying to evoke some response out of them. They are playing hard to get and it's stupid that you were so kind putting in all that effort and they just stab you in the back (no pun intended).

Honestly, asking for multiple knives, then having one in a custom color, they should have known it would be expensive. They got more than great service and should pay up for what they received. Sure $5,000 sounds like a lot and even in the bigger picture it is a decent dent in any wallet, but really isn't much. A movie ticket runs around $8 (let's average matinee and regular tickets). So they'd need to sell 625 tickets to make up for it. That not many people considering the number of people in the states. I'm sure thousands will see it opening night and even more while it is in theaters. Heck, 625 people, thats like only a handful of theaters on opening night. I don't know why they would be so stingy over $5,000 and then furthermore try to bribe you with movie credits and the notion that you can get revenue by marking the knife something similar to the "Rambo knife" to get even more profit. Personally, I would rather be compensated for the knives with money than a small line in credits. Sure, thats neat, but like easter eggs in video games, few will see it, and if they do, they'd have to be looking for it. No one watches through credits nowadays.

Honestly, getting your name in the credits wouldn't matter. People are interested in the knife and the knife alone. If you are trying to find a knife from a movie, you probably aren't going to be interested in much else. Look at what happened to NCIS and ZT. I don't know if they were ever mentioned in the credits (ZT or Kershaw) but who looks at credits when you have the internet? A bunch of non knife people got the ZT301 because of the show regardless of their enthusiasm for knives, and I bet they just went to ebay or just googled and bought it from where they could.

damn you and your logic:ross:

[RoyalM]

Sorry to read this thread. Another case of the big guy with money fucking over the little guy who needs the money.

I hope there is a moral outcome to this, by that I mean those in the wrong do the right thing and pay up.

[Horizonod]

11 of the 15 knives we sent Stallone were personal purchasses and have nothing to do with the movie so this realease bullshit is a stall at best.

I will except no payment for these knives. They are no longer for sale. I will only accept them back in unused condition and I forbib my property to be used in any movie. I believe I have that right and their release seems to indicate the same. If they don't or can't send them back in original condition or they have used them in shooting,.......well I guess we'll see what happens.

In my last email I mentioned that holding payment for something and demanding a release be signed BEFORE payment will be tendered, especially when that was no part of the agreement, sounds perilously close to a form of extortion.

I consider these knives stolen property. I'm considering filing a report with the New Orleans PD (where the movie is being shot). If these jokers can't produce receipts for the knives in their possesion then...................................

[RoadFish]

Now you are being childish and working against your own interests.

[Towelie]

Now you are being childish and working against your own interests.

Seems a little harsh there. I think he is in the right myself. If they are holding payment for a release to besigned that wasnot part of the deal, then i'd like tothink I would do the same. What happens if he were to sign it, then they claim that they now have on file his intent toget product placement in their movie and there was no agreement that the knives were to be sold. I would think a signed document says more in a court of law than finger pointing about conversations that took place.

[Horizonod]

Now you are being childish and working against your own interests.

I'm being childish?? They are the ones percipitaing this by playing silly ass games.

The bill for the knives remains unpaid and, as such, they remain my property. If they have used my knives without my permission they can't use them in the movie.

My message is simple: If they had paid for the knives, as they promissed, they could do whatever they wanted with them but since the knives are still my property they cannot. If they have to reshoot scenes it will cost them dearly.

If they have used my property without my express permission I deserve fair compensation and now I'm the one that has to agree upon what fair compensation is, IF they have used them. If not, I get my knives back at least and they can find something else to use.

When they thought they had me by the short hairs by having both my money and my product they chose to dick me around. Now the condom is on the other dick.

[RoadFish]

I am referring to the part about accepting no payment. Also, I believe that you have to file theft charges in the state they were stolen from. I forget, were these sent by mail? I am not 100% sure, but not paying a bill I believe is a civil case, not criminal.

[Horizonod]

They are the ones that said they will only pay if I sign their ex post facto release. I'm not signing. I guess that means, by their own admission, they aren't paying. Fine. I'm calling their illegal bluff and demanding my property back along with expressly forbiding them to use them.

Now, if they have already used the knife or knives, what will they have to do?

They will have to either re shoot the scenes or satisfy me. Which do you think would be cheaper and easier?

[RoadFish]

If it were me, and it isn't, I would just treat it like any unpaid bill. The release is bullshit. I don't believe that the knives are yours. You sold them. In my experience, when a retailer sells something on credit, as in bill you later, the retailer has to go to civil court to get repossession of the item he sold. I am not sure you can stop them from using it for anything they want to use it for. The release that they sent you really doesn't have anything to do with you. It was just a ploy. You don't own any copyright or trademark for the knives you sold. They were just trying to snowball you.

[Horizonod]

I think you are correct. The release is totally bogus and a ploy to stall payment as promissed as were all of their numerous requests for invoices. The actions of a sleazeball.

Whether or not we have any legal rights regarding the ownership of items that have not been paid for and that they have stated we will not be paid for unless we knuckle under to their after the fact demands remains to be seen but if you were shooting a multi million dollar movie, would you bank on the chances? Everybody knows how the courts opperate and trying to guess how they might rule on something is a toss of the dice even if it seems cut and dried.

I have nothing to loose beyond what I've already lost. They, on the other hand, have boatloads to lose not the least of which would be an injunktion against the movie unless and until they pay a fair and legal debt.

With all of the bullshit they are putting us through the price of the knives will no longer satisfy what I believe we are owed.

[BaliNEWB]

Fuck them in the ass as hard as they fucked you, then do it again.

[norcal13]

would this thread even exist if the dirtbag wasn't famous.

no.

would you have sent out 5k worth of knives to any customer?

i'm going to guess no.

just sue him and take it as a
lesson learned that actors are
not the parts they play in the movies.

[LorenzoL]

I would try to get paid, who knows in what condition those knives would be sent back to you.
Legally speaking, it is a tricky situation because of the type of knives that are involved.

[Buffalohump]

Yup, I agree. For all you know they are probably using them to play mumblety-peg right now...

I know you are just a mom 'n pop store but I think you should take the logical step which is to lawyer up and get heavy. Generally speaking that tends to get people's attention.


I would try to get paid, who knows in what condition those knives would be sent back to you.
Legally speaking, it is a tricky situation because of the type of knives that are involved.

[tmbrcrafter]

[QUOTE=Horizonod;1073929]
I will except no payment for these knives. They are no longer for sale. I will only accept them back in unused condition and I forbib my property to be used in any movieQUOTE]

This seems a bit silly to me as well. Wouldn't you just want to get your money? Who fucking cares if they use "your" knives.... get paid

[Horizonod]

According to the producer, if we don't sign we aren't getting paid and the knives won't be in the movie.

I think the knives already are in the movie. UH OH.:violindevil:

Well then, return the unpaid for merchandise.

If they are in the movie, take them out.

Simple and cost effective, for us, for them,....not so much.

Childish, maybe, but who is in the hot seat now??

Call it what you want. It's working.

[englishmark]

According to the producer, if we don't sign we aren't getting paid and the knives won't be in the movie.

I think the knives already are in the movie. UH OH.:violindevil:

Well then, return the unpaid for merchandise.

If they are in the movie, take them out.

Simple and cost effective, for us, for them,....not so much.

Childish, maybe, but who is in the hot seat now??

Call it what you want. It's working.


They have the knives.............they have the money.................how is it working ?

[norcal13]

They have the knives.............they have the money.................how is it working ?
don't encourage him.

[RoadFish]

Hollywood Producer = Shark

Knife Dealer = Anchovie

[Captain Spaulding]

Wow. Thread subscribed.

I cant believe all of this drama for what could and should have been handled the first invoice with mere pocket change. (not pocket change for ME, but in the grand scheme of a movie production budget.)

Someone already said it, but this thread has been more entertaining than the last 4 (at least) of his films.

OP: I hope it works out and you are compensated for everything this hassel is worth and then some.

Just owning one of these knives associated with this much drama would be cool, too bad its outta my budget.

[ratstuph]

Knife Dealer = Anchovie

I think you underestimate my buddy Nick. At a minimum "= Candiru".
all da best,
rats...

[Soup_Monger]

It's "Anchovy".

[Horizonod]

They have the knives.............they have the money.................how is it working ?

It's working out because I'm now dealing with about a dozen people there instead of with the phuquestik that started the ball of dung rolling. Since a few of them seem to be his superiors and I've apprised Warner Brothers legal department of the situation as well, my guess is that Mr. High n Mighty is being seen for the what he is and has some unhappy bosses to explain his lies, failure to pay and baseless ultimatums to.

They have sent us back via FedEx overnight the majority of knives ordered, as per our request, but retained 7 HALO Vs, 4 of them the special order red ones.

They boluxed up the original deal. I think we are entitled to renegotiate.

[Towelie]

good for you Nick. Sounds like you're getting it taken care of.

[RoadFish]

It's "Anchovy".

I was using the rare, old, pre-Columbian Occitaine Soupexian variant spelling as used along the Chemin de Fontvieille. :devil1:

[Tank Buster]

You should have just tried to get your money from them. But whatever works for you.

[tmbrcrafter]

They have sent us back via FedEx overnight the majority of knives ordered, as per our request, but retained 7 HALO Vs, 4 of them the special order red ones.



So they kept 7 knives, so again, how is this working for you?

[gzb]

They have sent us back via FedEx overnight the majority of knives ordered, as per our request, but retained 7 HALO Vs, 4 of them the special order red ones.


"the majority of knives ordered,... but retained 7 Halo Vs..."?

Damn Nick, just how many MTs did you sell them for $5K???

Helluva deal sounds like...

[Horizonod]

Actually Greg all the knives together plus shipping charges and stuff were closer to $7K. $5K was for 9 HALO Vs. We got 2 of those back so now it's closer to $4K.

At least we're getting somewhere. I hate the legal system and will avoid it as an absolute last resort.

Mr S himself has been trying to call us all evening but I told him we didn't have time to talk. Joyce, Libby and I were going out for dinner and a movie.

We'll talk tomorrow. I'm curious what his attitude will be. My guess is they have already used the knives although everybody is dancing around that question.

[RoadFish]

You didn't have time to talk? A $5,000 dinner and movie? Everyone has their own priorities.

[Soup_Monger]

Actually Greg all the knives together plus shipping charges and stuff were closer to $7K. $5K was for 9 HALO Vs. We got 2 of those back so now it's closer to $4K.

At least we're getting somewhere. I hate the legal system and will avoid it as an absolute last resort.

Mr S himself has been trying to call us all evening but I told him we didn't have time to talk. Joyce, Libby and I were going out for dinner and a movie.

We'll talk tomorrow. I'm curious what his attitude will be. My guess is they have already used the knives although everybody is dancing around that question.


It's starting to smell a lot like bullshit, Mr Nod.

[Horizonod]

You didn't have time to talk? A $5,000 dinner and movie? Everyone has their own priorities.

Yes they do. Everyone also has an opinion. You know what they say about opinions.


It's starting to smell a lot like bullshit, Mr Nod.

If you want to call bullshit that's your perogative. Back it up if you can but be prepared to eat your words.

[Soup_Monger]

No... it's definitely your shit that I am smelling.

[Horizonod]

No... it's definitely your shit that I am smelling.

Gee,...sorry about that. I'd recommend cleaning your nostrils and being more careful where you put your face.:bwah::devil1::bwah:

[Soup_Monger]

Your response speaks volumes.

Thanks.

[Horizonod]

Your response speaks volumes.

Thanks.

As do most of your ignorant troll like comments. How did you reach ADMIN status talking out of your ass so much? I didn't think Admins were supposed to start shit. That's recerved for fools and trolls. Perhaps a demotion is in order until you learn some manners or can back up your babble.:devilzeek

If you think I'm bullshitting about any of this put up or shut up. I didn't think that on the Mighty JD members could just call bullshit without either backing it up or publicly eating crow. If you are prepared to eat crow, I'm game.

Provide some proof or you're just full of shit and THAT is what you're smelling.:bwah::ross::bwah::devil1:

[Soup_Monger]

So you didn't answer a call from Sylvester Stallone which could have solved the problem that you have been incessantly whining about in this thread because you were going out to dinner?

Not sure what you want me to prove... but that is the only part I am calling bullshit on... which should have been obvious.

I'm chatting to Bruce Willis on Yahoo messenger at the moment... and he doesn't believe it either. :bwah:

[englishmark]

I'm chatting to Bruce Willis on Yahoo messenger at the moment... and he doesn't believe it either. :bwah:


Soupy, tell Bruce he still owes me for some vests I sold him in the eighties.

[au5t3n5]

Unless you ran off to a REALLY REALLY nice place for dinner because of a reservation (hey, some places you gotta reserve months in advance and I totally respect you if you ditched a phone call to keep your reservation), I don't know why you didn't answer the call and resolve your problem.

If you forewent the call in order to go to Chili's.../facepalm.

[Bobert]

If you think I'm bullshitting about any of this put up or shut up. I didn't think that on the Mighty JD members could just call bullshit without either backing it up or publicly eating crow. If you are prepared to eat crow, I'm game.

Provide some proof or you're just full of shit and THAT is what you're smelling.:bwah::ross::bwah::devil1:




Actually, you have that backwards. It's the people making the claims that have to put up or shut up. The folks calling bullshit are the ones who ask for proof. People often say "Pics or you're full of shit", nobody comes back with "Prove I don't have pics".

Aside from that, even if everything went down as you said it did, you don't come out looking very good. First, you say you're going to tack on fees for stuff you originally did for free. Then, you tell them they can't use the knives in the movie, in the hope that it somehow gives you leverage if they did. And now, you plan to renegotiate because you think you have them over a barrel (which I highly doubt).

Surely you don't think your reputation is unscathed by this.

[RoadFish]

As do most of your ignorant troll like comments. How did you reach ADMIN status talking out of your ass so much? I didn't think Admins were supposed to start shit. That's recerved for fools and trolls. Perhaps a demotion is in order until you learn some manners or can back up your babble.:devilzeek

If you think I'm bullshitting about any of this put up or shut up. I didn't think that on the Mighty JD members could just call bullshit without either backing it up or publicly eating crow. If you are prepared to eat crow, I'm game.

Provide some proof or you're just full of shit and THAT is what you're smelling.:bwah::ross::bwah::devil1:


My take on this is that you would rather whine about the problem than solve it. Maybe you just think this is good publicity for your business, but Stallone seems to be the one trying to solve the problem and you are just coming off as a childish puffer.

[Horizonod]

[QUOTE=Soup_Monger;1074988]So you didn't answer a call from Sylvester Stallone which could have solved the problem that you have been incessantly whining about in this thread because you were going out to dinner?[QUOTE]

Exactly. If you want to call me a liar, put your money where your mouth is and prove one of us an ignorant fool.:thumbsup:

Here's how we'll do it.


Let's call it the first international put up or shut the fuck up like the ignorant pussy bitch that you are
THROWDOWN!!!

Here's an outline. You and I both put up $2K and forward it to the paypal account of a trusted JD member.

Whoever is proven wrong by the majority of voting JD members forfiets their $2000.00 and the person voted to have proven their assertion receives $3000.00 back from the holder of the funds. The Mighty JD keeps the change for being the intermediary.

Everybody WINS!!!! Except the one that's talking out their ass. How cool is THAT??

Fair enough????:RoyalM: Are YOU ready to put your $$$$$$$$$ where your mouth is?? I am.:devilfinger:

Let's get ready to RUMBLE!!!!!!!

[Horizonod]

If your feeling as froggy as you are mouthy I'll go to $5K if you want.:manganr:

Easy MONEY hotshot !!!! Do we have a deal????????

[Mpsecare]

Now the condom is on the other dick.

fuck, that's brilliant! noted.

[Mpsecare]

I'd just like to add that If you guys need me to hold any of that cash my p.o. box is in my profile..... cough cough

[Soup_Monger]

Soupy, tell Bruce he still owes me for some vests I sold him in the eighties.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d104/fergus2468/meandBruce.jpg

[au5t3n5]

Hold up guys.

Is it:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Horizonod: Sly really called? And there really is an issue involving him personally and his upcoming film?

VS

Soup_Monger: He didn't call. This is all a lie?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Horizonod]

Unless you ran off to a REALLY REALLY nice place for dinner because of a reservation (hey, some places you gotta reserve months in advance and I totally respect you if you ditched a phone call to keep your reservation), I don't know why you didn't answer the call and resolve your problem.

If you forewent the call in order to go to Chili's.../facepalm.

We close at 5pm. We have a mentally handicapped 25 year old daughter that I told we were taking out for dinner and a movie because it's Friday and we had a rough week. Stallone called as we were headed out the door. You bet your ass he can call back. He has put off paying for nearly two months on his first order, promissed us CC#s several times, placed other orders and never fololowed through with payment. We have bent over backwards for these people and been treated like shit for it. If he was so interested in making things right why has he waited so long? If he's waited this long another day isn't going to matter so ask me if I give a shit what you think and guess what the answer is.:devilzeek

[au5t3n5]

We close at 5pm. We have a mentally handicapped 25 year old daughter that I told we were taking out for dinner and a movie because it's Friday and we had a rough week. Stallone called as we were headed out the door. You bet your ass he can call back. He has put off paying for nearly two months on his first order, promissed us CC#s several times, placed other orders and never fololowed through with payment. We have bent over backwards for these people and been treated like shit for it. If he was so interested in making things right why has he waited so long? If he's waited this long another day isn't going to matter so ask me if I give a shit what you think and guess what the answer is.:devilzeek

Ah, well that would give some explanation to the forewent call. Thank you. I hope you had an enjoyable dinner.

From what you say it appears you have been royally fucked from your good intent, but there is one looming question I must ask;

If he placed other orders which you presumably filled (he returned 7 or so knives, and you were still expecting a handful more), why did you fulfill them even though his previous orders were never paid for and you don't even so much as have a CC# from him?

You should know I am not trying to call you a liar, or stupid, or poke holes in your arguments. I am just asking, if you are a mom and pop store, or any store for that matter, why would you go through business with anyone, regardless of who they are, without any form or payment, even a CC#?

[Horizonod]

Actually, you have that backwards. It's the people making the claims that have to put up or shut up. The folks calling bullshit are the ones who ask for proof. People often say "Pics or you're full of shit", nobody comes back with "Prove I don't have pics".

Aside from that, even if everything went down as you said it did, you don't come out looking very good. First, you say you're going to tack on fees for stuff you originally did for free. Then, you tell them they can't use the knives in the movie, in the hope that it somehow gives you leverage if they did. And now, you plan to renegotiate because you think you have them over a barrel (which I highly doubt).

Surely you don't think your reputation is unscathed by this.

I see nothing wrong with adding reasonable and customary fees that were done in good faith at no charge as a courtesy when the person doesn't pay in good faith as promissed and then wastes hours and hours of our time trying to stall and hardball us. They witheld payment then changed the rules and you scrutinize and blame us for these silly little things that don't amount to a pinch of shit?? Where am I, Bladeforum?

[LorenzoL]

I am with Soup on this.
We are not even sure whether Stallone is actually involved. I thought he had better taste with knives.
I really don't get what posting this thread was intended to achieve...
It sure is entertaining, though ;).:bwah:

[Horizonod]

Ah, well that would give some explanation to the forewent call. Thank you. I hope you had an enjoyable dinner.

From what you say it appears you have been royally fucked from your good intent, but there is one looming question I must ask;

If he placed other orders which you presumably filled (he returned 7 or so knives, and you were still expecting a handful more), why did you fulfill them even though his previous orders were never paid for and you don't even so much as have a CC# from him?

You should know I am not trying to call you a liar, or stupid, or poke holes in your arguments. I am just asking, if you are a mom and pop store, or any store for that matter, why would you go through business with anyone, regardless of who they are, without any form or payment, even a CC#?

We had a card on file and he had a credit for a previous return. He has always paid in the past and there's no doubt he has the money so we trusted him. I guess we were wrong for that too.

He fucks us out of paying us then stalls and breaks his word to get us CC numbers and on and on but we are the ones in the wrong. OK, I get it now.

If I leave my keys in my car while pumping gas and somebody steals my car they are perfectly within their rights and fine upstanding citizens, I'm the one at fault for leaving my keys in the car.

Do you guys all work for the ACLU or what?

[au5t3n5]

We had a card on file and he had a credit for a previous return. He has always paid in the past and there's no doubt he has the money so we trusted him. I guess we were wrong for that too.

He fucks us out of paying us then stalls and breaks his word to get us CC numbers and on and on but we are the ones in the wrong. OK, I get it now.

If I leave my keys in my car while pumping gas and somebody steals my car they are perfectly within their rights and fine upstanding citizens, I'm the one at fault for leaving my keys in the car.

Do you guys all work for the ACLU or what?

I hate to sound condescending, but I wouldn't say they are "within their rights and fine upstanding citizens" but at least you admit you are "at fault for leaving my keys in the car" because thats your fault and yours alone. You dropped the ball on this one, trusting a customer on some assumed basis of trust and his financial background. You should have run an equal business, and treated him like any other paying customer, as you would me or Soup_Monger.



I am with Soup on this.
We are not even sure whether Stallone is actually involved. I thought he had better taste with knives.
I really don't get what posting this thread was intended to achieve...
It sure is entertaining, though ;).:bwah:

Empathy. When you need it, and it is being given, it helps.

[Horizonod]

I am with Soup on this.
We are not even sure whether Stallone is actually involved. I thought he had better taste with knives.
I really don't get what posting this thread was intended to achieve...
It sure is entertaining, though ;).:bwah:

I thought I could vent among like minded and principled people that might recognize the treatment we've received as bullshit and offer a suggestion or two in support.

I thought some members might be interested because it's both knife and movie related.

Once again,.....I'm wrong.

[LorenzoL]

You dismissed all the sensible advice given to you.
At first I was outraged by the treatment you had received but then you lost me when you claimed not to have taken "Sly's" call: no-one running a "Pop & Mum" store would have done that with $4000 at stake.

[Horizonod]

I hate to sound condescending, but I wouldn't say they are "within their rights and fine upstanding citizens" but at least you admit you are " at fault for leaving my keys in the car" because that your fault and yours alone. You dropped the ball on this one, trusting a customer on some assumed basis of trust and his financial background. You should have run an equal business, and treated him like any other paying customer, as you would me, or Soup_Monger.

Yeah. You're right. There are no criminals just stupid citizens that ask to be stolen from.

They are completely and totally within their rights not to pay us because we trusted them.

Why anyone would trust a long time customer who always paid, was a public figure and had plenty of money I can't explain.

I think everybody should start adopting their way of doing things. All of the items just left out in the open at grocery stores, electronic stores and so on. They aren't locked down. There are no signs saying we can't just walk off with them. If these things get carried off it's the stores fault for not bolting them down.

If it's my fault somebody steels my car while I'm pumping gas, even if I left my keys in the car, how can any right minded person not recognize the thief as a criminal and blame the person who trusted that most people abided by the law?

Trust is a horrible thing and should always be taken advantage of. I see now. I see there are twisted people who can't deliniate between right and wrong.

[Horizonod]

You dismissed all the sensible advice given to you.
At first I was outraged by the treatment you had received but then you lost me when you claimed not to have taken "Sly's" call: no-one running a "Pop & Mum" store would have done that with $4000 at stake.

Yeah, well you can explain that to our daughter. I'm sure she wouldn't understand but you can try.

We'll get paid, mark my words.

I was going to win part of it back but the loudmouth pussy won't respond. He just keeps spewing out his lies and moronic bullshit and ingores the challenge.

If you guys really want proof tell the pussy to step up. I can provide Skype records and voicemails, restaurant receipts, movie stubs, travel times and whatever else a dickhead would need as proof if puss n soup wants to answer the challenge. Why don't all you guys help him out. Maybe he can't raise $2K. Why isn't anybody calling him out so we can prove if what he calls bullshit is bullshit or not?

We will be paid and we'll get paid BECAUSE I'm not kissing their asses. Patient and nice didn't work.

[au5t3n5]

Yeah. You're right. There are no criminals just stupid citizens that ask to be stolen from.

They are completely and totally within their rights not to pay us because we trusted them.

Why anyone would trust a long time customer who always paid, was a public figure and had plenty of money I can't explain.

I think everybody should start adopting their way of doing things. All of the items just left out in the open at grocery stores, electronic stores and so on. They aren't locked down. There are no signs saying we can't just walk off with them. If these things get carried off it's the stores fault for not bolting them down.

If it's my fault somebody steels my car while I'm pumping gas, even if I left my keys in the car, how can any right minded person not recognize the thief as a criminal and blame the person who trusted that most people abided by the law?

Trust is a horrible thing and should always be taken advantage of. I see now. I see there are twisted people who can't deliniate between right and wrong.


Look. I feel sorry for you. Since I read your story until even now. You are in a shitty position, and that was because you trusted him. Trust is an evil thing. When it goes wrong, it goes horribly wrong.

On that note, it is your fault as a retailer to be doing business like the way you did. I don't blame you for trusting a long time customer and even going out of your way to help him. But hey, he stabbed you in the back and sure you are mad, but you put yourself out there when you trusted him and took all those risks. This is your business practice we are talking about, and you made all those decisions. So when they came out differently than expected, well, you should have thought ahead of time. You chose to handle a business based on trust not money, and it fucked you over. You're loss. Now you will know for the future. You should never mix trust and business. Sure it is nice, but this is a prime example of what happens when things go wrong.

Your analogy is incorrect. There are criminals. But no one would have stolen your car if you didn't leave your keys in it and left the car unattended. You set the precedent by leaving your keys in the car. Point is, there wouldn't have been a crime if you had your bases covered, ie. locking your car, or in this case, making sure there was money to back up purchases.

Yes, you got fucked over. But if you had your bases covered like a good business, there wouldn't be a problem. You sound like a good guy with good intentions, who got fucked over. Sure what he did was bad, but you practiced bad business in the first place. A lesser crime, but you can't say you are in the clear either. Now you know you shouldn't mix personal feelings/trust with business.

A lot of stores are based off trust. It isn't hard to steal the fruits outside a supermarket or slide a candy bar into your pocket. But stores do regulate with cameras and scanners where they can and they trust you don't steal based on morals and guilt. Sure they get fucked once in a while too (probably fairly often actually), but if they can control it, they try to. Because you can control all your product (being knives in this case), I don't know why you would even need to begin to rely on trust. What is paid for is what gets delivered. Sure, trust is a nice gesture, but you are running a business here.

[Horizonod]

Look. I feel sorry for you. Since I read your story until even now. You are in a shitty position, and that was because you trusted him. Trust is an evil thing. When it goes wrong, it goes horribly wrong.

On that note, it is your fault as a retailer to be doing business like the way you did. I don't blame you for trusting a long time customer and even going out of your way to help him. But hey, he stabbed you in the back and sure you are mad, but you put yourself out there when you trusted him and took all those risks. This is your business practice we are talking about, and you made all those decisions. So when they came out differently than expected, well, you should have thought ahead of time. You chose to handle a business based on trust not money, and it fucked you over. You're loss. Now you will know for the future. You should never mix trust and business. Sure it is nice, but this is a prime example of what happens when things go wrong.

Your analogy is incorrect. There are criminals. But no one would have stolen your car if you didn't leave your keys in it and left the car unattended. You set the precedent by leaving your keys in the car. Point is, there wouldn't have been a crime if you had your bases covered, ie. locking your car, or in this case, making sure there was money to back up purchases.

Yes, you got fucked over. But if you had your bases covered like a good business, there wouldn't be a problem. You sound like a good guy with good intentions, who got fucked over. Sure what he did was bad, but you practiced bad business in the first place. A lesser crime, but you can't say you are in the clear either. Now you know you shouldn't mix personal feelings/trust with business.

A lot of stores are based off trust. It isn't hard to steal the fruits outside a supermarket or slide a candy bar into your pocket. But stores do regulate with cameras and scanners where they can and they trust you don't steal based on morals and guilt. Sure they get fucked once in a while too (probably fairly often actually), but if they can control it, they try to. Because you can control all your product (being knives in this case), I don't know why you would even need to begin to rely on trust. What is paid for is what gets delivered. Sure, trust is a nice gesture, but you are running a business here.

Oh BULLSHIT!! "There wouldn't be crime if law abiding citizens did everything right".

Giving the wrongdoer a free pass is the job of the courts not the citizenry.

There would be less crime if every law abiding citizen were given a .45.

I'm sorry. I think that WRONG is WRONG and the wrongdoer is at fault. If your tires aren't locked onto your car and they get stolen are you wrong. If you say yes, you aren't wrong, you are either crazy or a defense attorney.

[Mike Stewart]

Horizonod,

I'm going to suggest that you stop posting about this until you get paid and tell us that all is resolved.

We know you seem to have your own way of handling your company and it's sales and a lot of us can't relate to that so you really need to just be kind of bottom line going forward here.

When that happens you can say - I got paid in full or I got my knives back but all else is just drama to us so when you get it resolved please let us know.


thanks,



Mike

[au5t3n5]

Oh BULLSHIT!! "There wouldn't be crime if law abiding citizens did everything right".

Giving the wrongdoer a free pass is the job of the courts not the citizenry.

There would be less crime if every law abiding citizen were given a .45.

I'm sorry. I think that WRONG is WRONG and the wrongdoer is at fault. If your tires aren't locked onto your car and they get stolen are you wrong. If you say yes, you aren't wrong, you are either crazy or a defense attorney.

A law abiding citizen, while he may experience crime, is never wrong. Are you insinuating that you are the "law abiding citizen" in this case? Because if you did everything as you were supposed to, the crime might not have even occurred, and if something did occur, it would be easily solved because there is a clear right and wrong. But last I checked you have some follies of your own.

I don't think you understand my point. Both of you are wrong. Sure, maybe Sly more than you, but you are both wrong nonetheless. You are not the "law abiding citizen" anymore Sly is. A petty thief and a bank robber are both criminals but to different degrees. You might not be as wrong as Sly, but you aren't in the clear either. I don't know why you won't admit to it. Because even though you don't explicitly say it, all the facts are here.

Sly and his company are wrong for not paying for the knives he "purchased" from you as well as avoiding payment.

You are wrong for trusting him because of his "previous purchasing background from you" as well as his "public figure" and "financial background" by giving him knives in exchange for later payment at an undisclosed time, presumably when you billed him after all was done.

You run a business based on money, not trust. Money in means knives out. It's as simple as that. You opted for a "later payment" which you never got. Last I checked, the few places that allow "later payment" that are banks and loansharks, both of which fuck you in the ass when you don't pay up.

Why do you keep trying to pretend you are innocent when it is partially your fault you are here in the first place. If you had run a sound business, then this problem would have never occurred to begin with.

That said, I hope you resolve your problem and get paid for your goods. That is the right thing to happen. You just shouldn't have put yourself in this situation in the first place.

And again your example is wrong. We are talking about something that can be controlled. Everyone's tires are more or less the same. It isn't your fault if they get stolen. Insurance will probably agree. Tire theft, while highly unlikely, can happen to anyone. It isn't practical to lock them down every time you park. But if you leave the keys in your car, which most no one does, then it is your fault for leaving them in the car. It is simple to take them with you and lock the car. If you don't it's your fault you left them in the car to get stolen. Sure there was someone who is a "criminal" who did the stealing, but nothing would happen if you just locked the car and took the keys with you. That you can control. If you tried to say you left keys in your car and someone stole it and that it's not your fault, it is more than likely insurance will laugh in your face. It is within your control to take care of your keys. Just like your business. What you can control, you are responsible for. You cannot control the tires to your car. It just isn't feasible. If someone steals them when you are gone, insurance will probably take care of you. You can control the locks and keys to your car. It isn't hard and many people do it. If you don't, then you are the odd man out. Therefore, if you leave them in your car unlocked, and someone steals it, it is your fault. Insurance will think you are a careless man. You can control what product leaves your business and at what price. You are in control of what is going on and therefore partially responsible.

I don't know how many times I need to recreate your situation through analogies, but I am done. If you can't understand what I am trying to say, maybe you should rethink your business plan or take a crash course on logic.

[Horizonod]

Horizonod,

I'm going to suggest that you stop posting about this until you get paid and tell us that all is resolved.

We know you seem to have your own way of handling your company and it's sales and a lot of us can't relate to that so you really need to just be kind of bottom line going forward here.

When that happens you can say - I got paid in full or I got my knives back but all else is just drama to us so when you get it resolved please let us know.


thanks,



Mike

That's ok Mike. I'd probably just be accused of lying about it. I'm sorry I started so much drama.

[Mike Stewart]

That's ok Mike. I'd probably just be accused of lying about it. I'm sorry I started so much drama.

Thanks,


Mike

[englishmark]

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d104/fergus2468/meandBruce.jpg


:bwah::bwah::bwah:

[Ronlad]

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d104/fergus2468/meandBruce.jpg

:wtf: You should know better.....


Abusing client/psychiatrist privileges like that Old Boy.

:sherlock:

We need someone to email Sly Stallone and get his side of the story. I believe Nick 100% but like to remain both fair as well as neutral.

:devilcorn:

[RoadFish]

I am too tired to pursue it, but it would be interesting to hear the other side's story.

Here are some contacts. Not sure they are up to date, though:

Sylvester Stallone

Instone

5251 California

Irvine, CA 92617


Sylvester Stallone's Manager:

Brian Gersh

Blue Train Entertainment

798 Brooktree Road

Pacific Palisades, CA 90272

Phone: 310-285-7300


Sylvester Stallone's East Coast Agent:

Andrea Eastman

International Creative Management

40 West 57th Street

New York, NY 10019

Phone: 212-556-5600


Sylvester Stallone's West Coast Agents:

Ed Limato or Jeff Berg or Jim Osborne or John Burnham

International Creative Management

10250 Constellation Boulevard

Los Angeles, CA 90067

Phone: 310-550-4000


Sylvester Stallone's Publicist:

Paul Bloch

Rogers & Cowan Public Relations

Pacific Design Center

8687 Melrose Avenue

7th Floor

Los Angeles, CA 90069

Phone: 310-854-8100


Sylvester Stallone's Attorney:

Alan Schwartz

Manatt Phelps & Phillips

11355 West Olympic Boulevard

Los Angeles, CA 90064

Phone: 310-312-4000


Another Attorney listing for Sylvester Stallone:

Jake Bloom

Bloom Hergott Deimer Rosenthall La Violette

150 South Rodeo Drive

3rd Floor

Beverly Hills, CA 90212

Phone: 310-859-6800

[Bobert]

I see nothing wrong with adding reasonable and customary fees that were done in good faith at no charge as a courtesy when the person doesn't pay in good faith as promissed and then wastes hours and hours of our time trying to stall and hardball us. They witheld payment then changed the rules and you scrutinize and blame us for these silly little things that don't amount to a pinch of shit?? Where am I, Bladeforum?






I don't get the Bladeforum comment, but that's probably because we don't do cross forum bullshit here, so knock it off.

Nice how you avoided most of what I posted. By your own doing, you look like a bag of shit who's tacking on fees after the fact. That's no different from them telling you, after they ordered and received the knives, that they should be free because they're going to be used in the movie.

At first, they looked like shitheads, but now you do as well, even more so. The bet thing your harping on about just makes you look like a total fucking moron who doesn't have a clue.

Good luck with your shitty business practices. You'll never see a dime of my money.

[Towelie]

:bwah:

[zingzong2005]

Come on guys stop insulting each other :stayontopic:

so did Sly call back... ???

[Towelie]

i was laughing at somebody`s comment, but guess i forgot to quote it. :ross:

isn`t this the filibuster forum where most peeps just come to vent. a fellow devil is having a rough time and that`s the best time to shit on him?

[djdawg]

This thread started out , shame on sly ........... as I read on , its saying shame on all involved ......
IMHO ..... its time to quit throwing rocks and take-em to court.

[SugarSkull]

It has already been said, Horizonod is comfortable with his methodology of business practice and customer reliability. That should be enough to let him handle his own business.

It is a tad confusing when someone offers nearly as much as one is owed on a pissing contest though.

:violindevil:

[tmbrcrafter]

I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich with a movie producer but I had to pay him for it even though he let me see his wife naked. She had really nice nipples. But only on Tuesdays. Other than that, he was really on a boat

[Bobert]

I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich with a movie producer but I had to pay him for it even though he let me see his wife naked. She had really nice nipples. But only on Tuesdays. Other than that, he was really on a boat






Nice!

Maybe after Hnod renegotiates, Sly will give him a jelly donut.

[tmbrcrafter]

Nice!

Maybe after Hnod renegotiates, Sly will give him a jelly donut.


Exactly! But only if he doesn't punch the one legged midget or have chicken noodle soup....

[MJ]

Gheyest Thread Ever!!!!



Sad. :ssad:

[ColdSteelOnIce]

I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich with a movie producer but I had to pay him for it even though he let me see his wife naked. She had really nice nipples. But only on Tuesdays. Other than that, he was really on a boat

LMAO!

We must have had the same amount of cocktails,'cause, damn that made sense.

[ColdSteelOnIce]

Nice!

Maybe after Hnod renegotiates, Sly will give him a jelly donut.

Damn. this JD be fly. Jelly Dough nuts 'n' shit.

is they a Crispy creme pass around?

[apdb90]

Look. I feel sorry for you. Since I read your story until even now. You are in a shitty position, and that was because you trusted him. Trust is an evil thing. When it goes wrong, it goes horribly wrong.

On that note, it is your fault as a retailer to be doing business like the way you did. I don't blame you for trusting a long time customer and even going out of your way to help him. But hey, he stabbed you in the back and sure you are mad, but you put yourself out there when you trusted him and took all those risks. This is your business practice we are talking about, and you made all those decisions. So when they came out differently than expected, well, you should have thought ahead of time. You chose to handle a business based on trust not money, and it fucked you over. You're loss. Now you will know for the future. You should never mix trust and business. Sure it is nice, but this is a prime example of what happens when things go wrong.

Your analogy is incorrect. There are criminals. But no one would have stolen your car if you didn't leave your keys in it and left the car unattended. You set the precedent by leaving your keys in the car. Point is, there wouldn't have been a crime if you had your bases covered, ie. locking your car, or in this case, making sure there was money to back up purchases.

Yes, you got fucked over. But if you had your bases covered like a good business, there wouldn't be a problem. You sound like a good guy with good intentions, who got fucked over. Sure what he did was bad, but you practiced bad business in the first place. A lesser crime, but you can't say you are in the clear either. Now you know you shouldn't mix personal feelings/trust with business.

A lot of stores are based off trust. It isn't hard to steal the fruits outside a supermarket or slide a candy bar into your pocket. But stores do regulate with cameras and scanners where they can and they trust you don't steal based on morals and guilt. Sure they get fucked once in a while too (probably fairly often actually), but if they can control it, they try to. Because you can control all your product (being knives in this case), I don't know why you would even need to begin to rely on trust. What is paid for is what gets delivered. Sure, trust is a nice gesture, but you are running a business here.


No he based it on a credit card on file, that ended up not, or no longer being valid from what I understand out of all of this.

As far as the rest of this post....are you kidding me? So essentially what you're saying is "Yea, it sucks that the bitch got raped, but she's to blame too....look at the way she was dressed, and not only did she dress that way, but she didn't carry Mace, or a Taser, or a Gun." Sure, the rapist is at fault, but she is too." And before you do...don't give me "apples and oranges" or anything similar. There's direct correlation to what you're saying.

Moving on to other comments (not sure who made them) regarding the OP adding charges, etc.....I don't know how it works where he is, or where any of you are, but in some area's/States/etc. there are both written and verbal contracts, and both can be legally binding. When the OP sent those knives....and I'll preface this by saying all of this is based on my interpretation of the situation, based on his posts.....it was based on a promise to pay (verbal contract/agreement). There was custom work done, and from what I understand a lot of additional legwork done to deliver these in a certain timeframe. The OP decided to do that as a courtesy to an established customer who he had an existing business relationship with. Who knows if he would or would not have done it for anyone else, or if he would have charged anyone else, but it's possible. All of this was backed by an on file credit card that was later found to be invalid, expired, whatever...but essentially that point is moot. What is relevant is that in refusing to pay, then attempting to amend the verbal contract to include the OP signing a release BEFORE they would consider paying them, any agreement they had regarding pricing, etc was open for amending as well. That's the way it works. That's why most written contracts will include statements along the lines that if one portion is contested at a later time, the remaining portions remain valid. So if the OP decided "screw Sly and his people....I'm no longer willing to give him the courtesy I was originally willing to extend regarding the additional work, travel, etc. He's now paying for it if he wants to keep the knives", why is that wrong? It's pretty much exactly what Sly and his people are doing. You may not agree with him doing it...I may not agree with him doing it...but agree or not, he very possibly has the legal grounds to support his doing it. What I really love about this though is that chances are if he did this for you, you'd be talking about what a great guy he was, or his great customer service, but in this case, you're criticizing him for it.

Ultimately, I don't have a dog in this fight. I just thought I'd offer a few ideas for consideration. I don't think I would have added charges were I in his shoes at all. I'm pretty certain that if I had plans with my family and someone who had been screwing me around for money called, I wouldn't have dropped or delayed my plans either...especially outside business hours. I don't know that I would have posted any of this on the internet, especially at this point. But just because I would or would not have done what he did doesn't make him wrong, and criticizing him for what he did or didn't do would just make me an armchair quarterback looking at much of the decision making process in hindsight which was a luxury he didn't have.

[au5t3n5]

No he based it on a credit card on file, that ended up not, or no longer being valid from what I understand out of all of this.



If the card on file is no longer creditable, which they should have checked in the first place, they shouldn't have continued with days of business selling knives. He ordered knives before. Then custom red Halo V's. I cannot imagine all that happened within a day or so. There was time to bill and check the card.



As far as the rest of this post....are you kidding me? So essentially what you're saying is "Yea, it sucks that the bitch got raped, but she's to blame too....look at the way she was dressed, and not only did she dress that way, but she didn't carry Mace, or a Taser, or a Gun." Sure, the rapist is at fault, but she is too." And before you do...don't give me "apples and oranges" or anything similar. There's direct correlation to what you're saying.

Haha, do you even know what I am trying to say? What are you even talking about? Direct correlation? You are taking this out of context. You cannot count on there being a rapist around trying to rape you. That you cannot be prepared for. Which is why a court will rule in your favor of being raped. The argument bring that you say is a "direct correlation" is very similar to the Italian tight jeans rape court case. Look it up. Educate yourself. My point is something else entirely.

All I am saying is that if you know what you are dealing with, you should come prepared. He knows he is dealing a business, so he should be prepared to check that the credit cards and check through and make sure that everything is right before sending out product. What you are saying it is to blame a person who is shot for not wearing a bullet proof vest. What I am saying is that if you are in a war zone, actively engaging in combat and fighting a war and you get shot without your vest on, whose fault is that? You know exactly what you are getting into and exactly how to prepare. Should have thought ahead of time. You know what you are getting into. Prepare accordingly. The "bitch" getting raped does not know what she might be getting into, so it is not her fault for not preparing. Horizonod knows what he is getting into. Heck he runs a business. He knows money equals knives. It does not get simpler than that. No money = no knives. He needs to know he can get payment without giving more business. If he chooses to put out product without compensation, he is taking a risk. Risks that don't need to be taken that could and should be avoided.

Let me put this in a way that maybe you can understand. You are allergic to pollen. You usually take allergy pills before you go outside. If you forget are you going to get in a hissy fit and blame it on the pollen and flowers? No, you know you need to take your pills, but you forgot. Your fault.

Let me give you another one. You leave all your doors to your house open. You leave to watch a movie. You come back and stuff is stolen. Are you saying that you are absolutely NOT as fault for being robbed? It is all the robber's fault that you left an unlocked door and thus an invitation for robbery? I doubt you leave home without locking the doors. Do you park your car and leave the doors unlocked? I doubt it. That is because you are taking preventative measures. You know you can prevent petty theft by just locking your doors. Such a simple task is not unreasonable. Just like it isn't unreasonable to check and make sure you are paid before sending out product.

I don't see why this point is so hard to get? Is my English not clear enough for you? Let me know if you want me to break it down into simpler, smaller sentences for you to understand. Before you try to sass me next time, please try to actually understand my point. I'd prefer it if you didn't try to act snappy when you don't even know what you are talking about.

Do you sell knives to people you have dealt with in the past without getting payment first? If you don't get payment, who is out of luck and out of a knife if they don't pay up? You. Sure it sucks, but you should have gotten payment before sending it out. Taking unnecessary risks is no way to run a business.

[firebolt]

well nice half a hours worth off reading,


our shop policy;
no money = no order

a very big company wanted to buy some off our products, at first your flattered that there even considering buying from us,
and gave the parts on 8 day notice
that was the very last time.. it needed 45 days before they paid,
I'm not going to pay someone to collect my out standing bills.

so they needed some parts again, i called there financial head guy,
that we are no longer playing credit bank for them,
and if he really wants those parts, he better make a payment by bank transfer as we speak , as he did.

very common to overextend the 30 day payment.

i think this is something between little companies, the you know you can trust me bull shit.
very strange,
because all the suppliers where we buy our stuff, we need to pay as we order


so pay up sucker...
or feel the wrath off our accounting lady who has been issued with some knifes :madaddy:

[rio]

Gheyest Thread Ever!!!!



Sad. :ssad:

:RXX::shockedevil: Yeap

[Mike Stewart]

Folks.

If you look above - I asked Horizonod not to post again until this is resolved and he has honored my request.

It is not fair for the rest of you to keep posting and turn this into a Dog Pile.

I'm closing this mess.

Horizonod can let us know when it is all settled how it ultimately is resolved.

Thanks,

Mike